Author Topic: PCN 34J Being in a bus lane - Clapham Park Road, Lambeth  (Read 605 times)

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PCN 34J Being in a bus lane - Clapham Park Road, Lambeth
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Hi all,

I've been sent a PCN (links below) regarding an alleged contravention at the notorious Clapham Park Road / Abbeville Road | Acre Lane Bus Lane Priority filter where it turns left.  Like many, the driver believed this was the lane to turn left at the junction.

These are the links of the signage leading up to the junction and the road layout itself - although the road markings are a little faded now:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/GxSYvPym3Eg4FpTPA
https://maps.app.goo.gl/7WHsUBfzCpE2rmzA8
https://maps.app.goo.gl/2LRBpsLcmd3tFugj6
https://maps.app.goo.gl/szniGphaGydE64QCA
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Kw7PXuCa3UNgZo5B8

There is a large white arrow pointing left in the lane adjacent to the Bus Lane before the traffic island, this arrow is thus misleading directing drivers into the bus lane rather than to turn left after the traffic island as the council intends.

Clearly this Bus Lane has been a money spinner for Lambeth since its introduction - apparently the most lucrative across the country!

I was reviewing the Traffic Management Order from 2004 (link below) for this Bus Priority Lane - I am not sure if there are any more recent updates, would appreciate you thoughts on challenging that the Contravention did not occur based on Article 4(2) in the TMO - i.e. the vehicle is exempt as it crossed into the bus lane to "get to or from any road adjacent to the bus lane" - From the images of the bus lane it seems to end at the pedestrian crossing, whether this counts as "road adjacent" or Acre Lane itself?

In addition, I have uploaded a screenshot of the Lambeth PCN Payment website - the date of increase from the discount of £80 to £160 does not match the 14-day expiring period - is this ground for cancelling the PCN?

Any assistance in challenging this would be much appreciated, thanks


Link to PCN document and Evidence:
https://imgur.com/a/pcn-clapham-park-road-TjSV2Cs

Link to Screenshot of Lambeth PCN Payment Website:
https://imgur.com/a/gPLvmmW

Link to Lambeth Borough Council Traffic Management Order 2004:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/pcns_bus_lane_clapham_park_roada_4/response/388117/attach/11/LBC%202004%20No%2041%20The%20Lambeth%20Bus%20Priority%20Clapham%20Park%20Road%20Traffic%20Order%202004.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

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Re: PCN 34J Being in a bus lane - Clapham Park Road, Lambeth
« Reply #1 on: »
I am doing a Lambeth one for another member but privately. This will be fun as their website is total bolleaux.  I will look at the case later and offer a draft.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: PCN 34J Being in a bus lane - Clapham Park Road, Lambeth
« Reply #2 on: »
Morning, following up on an opinion / draft for grounds of challenge - the deadline to make representations and maintain the discount is tomorrow.

Thanks again!

Re: PCN 34J Being in a bus lane - Clapham Park Road, Lambeth
« Reply #3 on: »
Morning, following up on an opinion / draft for grounds of challenge - the deadline to make representations and maintain the discount is tomorrow.

Thanks again!

The law only allows an informal challenge. I suggest this:

I challenge liability for tis PCN because the video does not show any upright signage allegedly passed and therefore does not prove the alleged contravention.  Therefore, please cancel

****

We can leave the website issues for later.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: PCN 34J Being in a bus lane - Clapham Park Road, Lambeth
« Reply #4 on: »
Thanks for the input

Presumably this will get rejected out of hand with subsequent links from the council to the signage.

With this in mind, do you think I should add in my TMO comments where the drive was "moving to adjacent road" now or hold fire on that for now?

Thanks

Re: PCN 34J Being in a bus lane - Clapham Park Road, Lambeth
« Reply #5 on: »
Why not? Post up a draft first please.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: PCN 34J Being in a bus lane - Clapham Park Road, Lambeth
« Reply #6 on: »
A Draft.  Any comments/corrections/additions/thoughts welcome:


I believe there was no breach of the order and challenge liability for this PCN for the following reasons:

1.   The video evidence does not show any upright signage allegedly passed and therefore does not prove the alleged contravention

2.   According to Article 4(2) of the applicable Traffic Management Order (TMO) the controls specified in Article 3(1) do not apply in respect of a vehicle crossing a bus lane to get to or from any road adjacent to the bus lane.  At the time of the alleged contravention the vehicle moved to access the adjacent road on Clapham Park Road solely for the purpose of turning left at the junction with Abbeville Road.  This manoeuvre was legal under the terms of the TMO, the Bus Lane was not entered in contravention of the TMO as the adjacent road was to be accessed by the Vehicle.

3.   This adjacent road referenced in point 2 is characterised by the Pedestrian Crossing, Give-way triangular road marking and Double Broken white line at the subsequent left hand turn junction with Abbeville road and does not state or carry appropriate signage or road markings that it is a Bus Lane.

4.   In reference to point 3, The boundary denoting the nearside Bus Lane ends at the traffic island.

5.   The alleged contravention is de minimis, the manoeuvre of the vehicle did not undermine the Bus Lane or obstruct or interfere with any Bus Lane traffic

Re: PCN 34J Being in a bus lane - Clapham Park Road, Lambeth
« Reply #7 on: »
Okay.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: PCN 34J Being in a bus lane - Clapham Park Road, Lambeth
« Reply #8 on: »
As expected the informal challenge was rejected

I have attached the letter

Presumably I wait for the enforcement notice now

Thanks

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Re: PCN 34J Being in a bus lane - Clapham Park Road, Lambeth
« Reply #9 on: »
Yes to the EN. meantime, take screenshots of payment status as this will be crucial at the final set.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: PCN 34J Being in a bus lane - Clapham Park Road, Lambeth
« Reply #10 on: »
Thanks
Have done so
Will post back when the EN arrives

Re: PCN 34J Being in a bus lane - Clapham Park Road, Lambeth
« Reply #11 on: »
Hi

I have now received the enforcement notice - uploaded

I have also attached the screenshots of the Lambeth Payment Website at the various stages
1 - Pre informal challenge
2 - Post notice of rejection
3 - Post enforcement notice letter


[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Re: PCN 34J Being in a bus lane - Clapham Park Road, Lambeth
« Reply #12 on: »
1. The EN tells you to use the form and then contradicts itself by telling you to go online.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: PCN 34J Being in a bus lane - Clapham Park Road, Lambeth
« Reply #13 on: »
Is that in itself a grounds for cancellation?

Re: PCN 34J Being in a bus lane - Clapham Park Road, Lambeth
« Reply #14 on: »
Nope. I would just require them to consider your original challenge as formal representations, which you can do online. Do not mention their initial rejection though.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r