3. PCN: 31J: Entering and stopping in a Box Junction
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PCN: 31J: Entering and stopping in a Box Junction
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Dear Experts,
We got a ticket from Redbridge council for entering and stopping in a box junction (31J).

The PCN and evidence details are as below:

PCN Front and Back:
https://tinypic.host/image/PCN-Back.ng5zx
https://tinypic.host/image/PCN-Front.ng31f

Council Evidence:
https://tinypic.host/image/PCN1.naepG
https://tinypic.host/image/PCN2.ng2g4

Video:


Google Location:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Q7ANV5dWj5DUrehd6

Understand that it was a slip but wanted to check with the experts if there is any reasonable ground/change to contest this one?
« Last Edit: November 15, 2023, 07:55:42 pm by cp8759 »
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Re: PCN: 31J: Entering and stopping in a Box Junction
« Reply #1 on: »
You haven't uploaded the video, and you've redacted the PCN number and vehicle registration which prevents us from finding it online ourselves.

Are you able to reinstate?  Video is the primary evidence.
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Re: PCN: 31J: Entering and stopping in a Box Junction
« Reply #2 on: »
Thanks for the quick response. I am striggling to download the video from the council website (and then uploading it to be shared here). I can view it but not able to download. Is there a way/tool i can use to accomplish it?
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Re: PCN: 31J: Entering and stopping in a Box Junction
« Reply #3 on: »
Video evidence uploaded
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Re: PCN: 31J: Entering and stopping in a Box Junction
« Reply #4 on: »
The video, unfortunately, does seem to show a contravention (assuming yours is the orange car stopping at the back of the box).

The only thing I can see in your favour is the vague location stated in the PCN.  Most councils give two roads so you can work out which junction it was.  Just stating Meads Lane doesn't help much if you don't know the area well.  I've had a look on Google Street view and can only see one box junction along its entire (quite long) length, but if you know differently that might be an argument you can use.  Ultimately though relying on that alone would be a bit of a gamble and discount option might be best.

Get some other views before you do anything though.
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Re: PCN: 31J: Entering and stopping in a Box Junction
« Reply #5 on: »
Sorry, one more question, is that the entirety of the video evidence?  Or did you stop it prematurely?

You stopped quite early in the box so it might be possible to construct an argument that you actually could have continued moving forward at a slow walking pace, not reaching the other end before the get car starts moving again a few seconds later.  Very much a long shot I think, and if the video continues longer than what you've uploaded with the grey car stationary then there's no point even trying that one.
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Re: PCN: 31J: Entering and stopping in a Box Junction
« Reply #6 on: »
Thanks MrChips,
I have added the google location for the box juction. It is meads lane junction with Norfolk Rd.
The video evidence is also complete and as per the footage from the council.

Regarding the location, is it a must requirement to have the exact location specified and do we have any precendence that we can use in this regard?
For the possibility of moving forward, the car did stop in the junction for the period of time with no room to exit the junciton due to the car in front so not sure if anything can be said about that.

Some time ago, i heard about the validity of these box junctions as well that they need to be of specific size/dimension and need to cover certain area with edges alined with the edge of the road etc.. Not sure if those are still valid to persue..

Thanks
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Re: PCN: 31J: Entering and stopping in a Box Junction
« Reply #7 on: »
I cannot see any possibility of you winning this at London Tribunals. The council will refuse reps and you'd then have to take them to London Tribunals with the full PCN penalty in play, (£130).
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Re: PCN: 31J: Entering and stopping in a Box Junction
« Reply #8 on: »
Inclined to agree
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Re: PCN: 31J: Entering and stopping in a Box Junction
« Reply #9 on: »
@sirsyedian I can think of at least two or three grounds, please give us the PCN number and the number plate as I need to check a few things before I can write a draft for you.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

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cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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