Free Traffic Legal Advice

To be precise, you didn't drop your daughter off, you accompanied her to the leisure centre because the car was left unattended.

Before setting out the exemptions to the contravention, how old is your daughter, did you take her and return straight away and how long do you estimate you were away from the vehicle?

Please post up a scan or picture of the PCN. No need to redact anything as this was served on-street or in the car-park. All as per the instructions in the Read This First sticky post at the top of this forum.

Hi,

I've updated as per the instrcutions, thanks for that. Everything was in doc attached but pcn should also be found here: https://imgur.com/gallery/pcn-jk13368358-2yTT2ly



Google maps of location here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/4jE9Rchuy5dBKH659

And Southwark council online maps showing details like where bays and lines are can be found: https://streets.appyway.com/southwark & https://geomap.southwark.gov.uk/connect/analyst/mobile/#/main

And finally, yes I dropped her off for her lesson and returned to my car.

Thanks

Much appreciated. Out of interest, do you have a link that states we're "entitled to rely upon an exemption to the blanket waiting restriction"? I haven't been able to find anything, I thought there was no such grace period on double yellows. I expect they won't accept that excuse and i'll have to risk it by taking it further. And also with my other query, I don't believe it's a street, it doesn't have a street name and isn't shown on any maps. It's off-street as far as I can tell so i'm not sure it's even a valid code. If I don't mention this in my first response and they reject on whatever basis would it then be too late to raise that point?

Thanks again, i'll give that a go.

Then I'm tempted to ask why you parked on them!

As i've said, I don't believe this is a road. I can't paint yellow lines on my drive and start charging anyone who parks on it because I feel like it, I don't think this is any different.

@cupotea firstly the exemption for assisted boarding and alighting is very well established in law, here's a few of examples:

Roy Gould v Shepway District Council (SH 05045K, 24 February 2008)
Wajid Khan v London Borough of Waltham Forest (2160230738, 30 June 2016)
Nasima Begum v London Borough of Redbridge (2220685150, 2 November 2022)
Asim Bhuta v London Borough of Newham (2220099690, 22 March 2022)
Nabil Rohman v City of Westminster (2230560708, 10 February 2024)
Noor Ali v London Borough of Tower Hamlets (2230556595, 23 March 2024)

You'll note the last four had something to do with me.

Also the definition of a road for these purposes can be tediously complicated but in short, yes this could be a road and I suspect it probably is, but in this case it doesn't matter (if you want to know why it's a road, have a read of the last three paragraphs of Nisha Patel v London Borough of Hounslow (2190096099, 13 April 2019)).

The PCN alleged an on-street contravention, so the restriction is only enforceable if there is an on-street traffic regulation order that creates a waiting restriction at this location. The on-street waiting restriction for Southwark are on https://streets.appyway.com/southwark and it's plain that there are no on-street restrictions where you were parked, the nearest on-street restrictions are the yellow lines and paid parking bays on Brook Drive:



Of course it is entirely possible if not probable that there is an off-street parking places order designating this area as a car park, but even if there is the council only gets one shot at issuing the PCN and if they've put the wrong contravention code, it's too late for them to fix it now. So basically as long as you don't mess this up, it's all but a guaranteed win in the end.

It's therefore not really a question of giving it a go, it's a question of not being intimidated by the inevitable council rejection. There is a fair chance you will have to take this to the tribunal, but again as long as this is argued properly you are very likely to win.

In the first instance please show us what you sent to the council on 21 May.

Apologies, yes I am still here however the notifications were going to junk mail. I've resolved that now so they will come to my inbox.

I can't remember exactly what I wrote and don't have a note of it but it was along the lines of what was suggested, i.e.

"On Thurs May 16th I took my 8-year old daughter to her lesson at the leisure centre and as normal I parked my car and escorted her to the centre, booked-in, handed her over to one of the instructors and returned directly to my car. I estimate that this took me no more than 5 minutes by which time the PCN had been issued. I can understand why the CEO issued the PCN because the car was unattended, none the less, escorting my daughter is permitted in these circumstances and I should be grateful if the authority would promptly confirm that they have cancelled the PCN."

I finally received a response from Southwark dated June 27th stating the following:

We acknowledge the receipt of your correspondence challenging the issue of the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN)
JK13368358.
We have carefully considered what you have said but we have decided not to cancel the PCN.
You were issued a PCN for parking on a double yellow line. Double yellow lines mean no parking at any time, except to load
or unload. However, the Civil Enforcement Officer (CEO) observed your vehicle and saw no loading or unloading taking place.
Because the rule applies 24 hours a day, seven days a week, double yellow lines do not need to be accompanied by a sign.
I have noted from your comments that your were dropping your daughter off to her swimming lesson.
I have also noted from your comments that you were gone for 5 minutes and the PCN was issued within 3 minutes.
Please be advised that as of the end of July 2023, when new enforcement protocols were agreed upon, the CEO only needs
to give a 2 minute observation period, instead of the 5 minutes previously given, and if no evidence of loading, and no driver
is seen the CEO can issue a PCN to the vehicle under current legislation.
If a vehicle is left unattended by the driver, it is considered to be parked which is prohibited on the double yellow lines.
In summary, after reviewing the CEO’s notes and photographic evidence (provided below) I can confirm that this PCN was
correctly issued and remains upheld.

I've missed the chance to pay the reduced amount now anyway so I may as well crack on. Next I should receive a notice to owner at some point and can then take it from there, although I don't know the process.

As you say, cp8759, there doesn't appear to be a restriction showing on https://streets.appyway.com/southwark nor on another system used in Southwark, https://geomap.southwark.gov.uk/connect/analyst/mobile/#/main so that may be proof enough?

Thanks for comments and info.