Author Topic: Parking in Bromley borough on a Sunday. Can I fight this?!  (Read 1325 times)

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Re: Parking in Bromley borough on a Sunday. Can I fight this?!
« Reply #15 on: »
Hello,

I've finally received a letter back from Bromley Council nearly three months after I contested it.

I am surprised to find out that they have decided not to cancel the PCN. I have attached the letter in full.

Surely you have to have clearly marked lines to enforce this and clearly this wasn't the case here. Please could you advise what to do next? I know it is only £30 but I would like to fight it if you think that is sensible. I would be grateful to hear anyone's thoughts on this.

If the lines were very clearly marked then fine but they aren't. The images clearly show the lines are almost non-existent.

Once again I am very grateful for your input. My hit rate on this forum (in its previous incarnation) is 3 PCNs and 3 victories. Hoping to continue that.

Letter - https://flic.kr/p/2qcF9ku

There are two pages to the letter but the only thing of note on the second page is, "No signage is required for this type of restriction." before going on to explain how I can pay the PCN.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2024, 07:41:53 pm by Lefeuvre76 »

Re: Parking in Bromley borough on a Sunday. Can I fight this?!
« Reply #16 on: »
OP, what have lines got to do with matters?

According to the traffic sign in evidence, the restriction applies Mon-Sat.

The PCN alleges a contravention on a Sunday.

Outside the hours and days on the traffic sign IMO it is as if the road is an unmarked and unrestricted length of street. It is NOT a parking place without charging requirements, it is not a parking place.


Re: Parking in Bromley borough on a Sunday. Can I fight this?!
« Reply #17 on: »
The inference from the council seems to be that the signs were irrelevant. You cannot park outside the lines at any time, despite ignoring the fact that the signs are almost rubbed out.

Re: Parking in Bromley borough on a Sunday. Can I fight this?!
« Reply #18 on: »
I wish them well with this at adjudication.

As regards 'There are two pages to the letter but the only thing of note on the second page is, "No signage is required for this type of restriction." before going on to explain how I can pay the PCN.' let us be the judges of what's important and what is not and pl post this page and all pages of future notices/correspondence!
« Last Edit: August 31, 2024, 05:18:09 pm by H C Andersen »

Re: Parking in Bromley borough on a Sunday. Can I fight this?!
« Reply #19 on: »
Letter - https://flic.kr/p/2qcF9ku

There are two pages to the letter but the only thing of note on the second page is, "No signage is required for this type of restriction." before going on to explain how I can pay the PCN.
@Lefeuvre76 please post all the pages of the rejection.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Parking in Bromley borough on a Sunday. Can I fight this?!
« Reply #20 on: »
+1 Plus:

This will be another case for the Tribunal regarding their website grounds:

Parking

Not parked correctly within the marking of the bay or space

We will consider your appeal according to our appeals policy. If your reason for appeal is not listed in the policy, we are unlikely to accept it. However we will still consider your case individually.

Pay and Display (P&D) or Cashless

The following circumstances are relating to scenarios involving P&D tickets or cashless parking sessions.

Select a reason:

I had a Pay and Display (P&D) ticket 
I made a mistake when purchasing my Pay and Display (P&D) ticket 
I paid by phone or app 
I was in a rush and forgot to pay 
The Pay and Display machine was not working and I couldn't purchase a Pay and Display (P&D) ticket

Permits

The following circumstances are relating to scenarios involving parking permits.

Select a reason:

I had a permit 
Blue Badge

The following circumstances are relating to scenarios involving Blue Badges

Select a reason:

I had a Blue Badge on display 
Emergency / beyond driver's control
Reasons that relate to something unexpected happening to the motorist that must be seen to immediately

Select a reason:
I became unwell while driving 
I parked at the location because my child needed the toilet 
I stopped because of an emergency situation 
My passenger became unwell while I was driving 
My vehicle had broken down 
My vehicle was cloned 
My vehicle was stolen 
Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) wrongly / unfairly issued

Reasons where it may appear that the PCN was issued unfairly or incorrectly.

Select a reason:
I have already paid the PCN 
I only stopped for a few minutes 
I was not the owner of the vehicle 
I was only a few minutes late back to my vehicle 
I was unaware of the rules 
The vehicle was on hire to someone else 
There was nowhere else to park 

Other

Other reasons we have received that do not fall into one of the above categories.

Select a reason:
I did not cause an obstruction 
I didn't see any signs or lines 
I was loading / unloading at the time 
I was picking up / dropping off a passenger 
My vehicle is a taxi 


None of the above
If none of the above reasons apply, and you wish to challenge your PCN, please select below:

Select a reason:
Any other reason 

******

Search

Type something in the box below like 'disabled badge' or 'illness' to search for an appeal reason
Search for an appeal reason :
procedural impropriety
Suggested reasons for 'procedural impropriety'
No reasons have matched your search


******

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Type something in the box below like 'disabled badge' or 'illness' to search for an appeal reason
Search for an appeal reason :
penalty exceeded amount
Suggested reasons for 'penalty exceeded amount'
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*****

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Search for an appeal reason :
vehicle was taken without consent
Suggested reasons for 'vehicle was taken without consent'
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The last three attempts are statutory grounds! As are the ones below.

I am free if this goes to the Tribunal. I am pretty bored at present.  ;D  I have used the Scrabble metaphor once with Mr Harman.  ;D 2240304431

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/code-27-royal-borough-of-kingston-upon-thames/msg33601/#msg33601

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1w-QOHu0eV3-al1zvueKR71mnptGgx1c6/view

More:


Search
Type something in the box below like 'disabled badge' or 'illness' to search for an appeal reason
Search for an appeal reason :
invalid traffic order
Suggested reasons for 'invalid traffic order'
No reasons have matched your search


******

Search
Type something in the box below like 'disabled badge' or 'illness' to search for an appeal reason
Search for an appeal reason :
had ceased to be its owner before the alleged contravention occurre
Suggested reasons for 'had ceased to be its owner before the alleged contravention occurre'
No reasons have matched your search


******
Search
Type something in the box below like 'disabled badge' or 'illness' to search for an appeal reason
Search for an appeal reason :
became its owner after the alleged contravention occurred
Suggested reasons for 'became its owner after the alleged contravention occurred'
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*****

Search
Type something in the box below like 'disabled badge' or 'illness' to search for an appeal reason
Search for an appeal reason :
at the time that the alleged contravention occurred, the vehicle in question was in the control of a person who did not have the consent of the owner
Suggested reasons for 'at the time that the alleged contravention occurred, the vehicle in question was in the control of a person who did not have the consent of the owner'
No reasons have matched your search
« Last Edit: August 31, 2024, 02:52:51 pm by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: Parking in Bromley borough on a Sunday. Can I fight this?!
« Reply #21 on: »
Here is the second page as requested.

https://postimg.cc/bZgnrr9w


Re: Parking in Bromley borough on a Sunday. Can I fight this?!
« Reply #22 on: »
First line is bolleaux.  Wait for the Notice to Owner is my advice.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: Parking in Bromley borough on a Sunday. Can I fight this?!
« Reply #23 on: »
Like most other government forms, no space for "it's our ****-up" or similar.
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.

Re: Parking in Bromley borough on a Sunday. Can I fight this?!
« Reply #24 on: »
Their history re their bus lane cases precedes them. They need fully-trained parking appeals staff. And a magnanimous council leader.

Another open secret: their moving traffic PCNs currently are flawed too.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2024, 09:45:52 pm by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: Parking in Bromley borough on a Sunday. Can I fight this?!
« Reply #25 on: »
@Lefeuvre76 just wait for the notice to owner and let us know as soon as you get it.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Parking in Bromley borough on a Sunday. Can I fight this?!
« Reply #26 on: »
I have finally been sent the Notice To Owner after weeks. I attach links to all 3 pages of what I was sent. I was unable to post the images directly.

I really appreciate all the time and effort people have put in to advising me so far so I would be grateful for everyone's input on what the next steps would be now please?

https://ibb.co/kMLyxLr - PAGE 1

https://ibb.co/vwvSMLj - PAGE 2

https://ibb.co/yBZzz8B - PAGE 3.

Re: Parking in Bromley borough on a Sunday. Can I fight this?!
« Reply #27 on: »
I had one of these rejected by Bromley Council at the initial stage last year. I think they just cut and paste . It was only at the second stage (where you are now) that they backed down. I think it was the first time they had looked at it properly. If I were you, I'd also be arguing that this case is vexatious as it was clearly a Sunday outside restricted times and therefore the operative was seeking financial gain rather than enforcing effective parking control measures.

Re: Parking in Bromley borough on a Sunday. Can I fight this?!
« Reply #28 on: »
@Lefeuvre76 frankly I'd just resubmit your informal representations as your formal representations.

Again make representations online and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Parking in Bromley borough on a Sunday. Can I fight this?!
« Reply #29 on: »
I have now had a reply and they are sticking to their guns. Essentially it doesn't matter that it was a Sunday so no signs were necessary. The main thrust seems to be that despite their acknowledgment that the markings are faded (an understatement) the car was parked outside the lines to the PCN is enforceable.

I would be very grateful for your thoughts on what I should do next? Pay the fine and be done with it or go to court.

I attach the entire letter for your consideration. @cp8759 your input has been invaluable so far and it is much appreciated.

Thanks,

Tom.

https://ibb.co/8bQ308n

https://ibb.co/hDHw2vK

https://ibb.co/N7HM3gh

https://ibb.co/bmv9pV2

https://ibb.co/zRHLfVn

https://ibb.co/3pRgmJJ

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]
« Last Edit: November 02, 2024, 03:09:27 pm by Lefeuvre76 »