Author Topic: Newham, London - Code 40 parked in a disabled badge holder only bay - East Avenue E12  (Read 970 times)

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Google Maps Street view Location: https://maps.app.goo.gl/QcWuELg2skphzPQa6



I was picking up an elderly person from a local mosque, who was having a medical bowel incontinence emergency and saw that there was absolutely no legal place to park at all near his location. Therefore, I decided to park in this vacant bay and quickly try to escort and pick him up. I do not initially want to go through the hassle of acquiring a fit/sick note as I believe there are two points I could appeal from, however if advised to so, I will:

1.) As far as I am aware, vehicles in Newham are allowed 2 minutes to drop off and pick up passengers as *stated by their own wording* in their cancellation policy document issued to their CS department who deal with these appeals. I found this document in the 'PCN spreadsheet' pinned on this site :

 "In almost all locations (including loading bans & bus lanes), vehicles are permitted to stop to pick up or set down passengers. This is usually limited to 2 minutes except where the person dropping off/picking up needs longer i.e. elderly, suffering some form of disability, carrying heavy luggage or shopping etc. In these circumstances the vehicle may wait for as long as is necessary. The appellant must provide evidence in support of this claim.... There is no exemption for picking up/setting down on footway, at bus stops, pedestrian or school crossings, zigzag markings or waiting for passengers to visit a shop or emerge from buildings e.g. taxi or minicab driver waiting for passenger visiting an ATM.

This does not mention anything about disabled *non-resident* bays not being able to be used as an 'alighting point'. Therefore, I ask, what kind of evidence is suitable for me to prove that I was picking this elderly person up?

2.) As you may've already noticed, on the PCN, there is a 0-minute difference between Observation start time, and time of contravention. According to newhamparkingpolicyproceedures.pdf (a simple google search will provide you with this document), it states in Appendix C that the observation time for code 40 is 2 minutes. Clearly, this wasn't followed and abides by '4.4 - Observation Policy' in the same document. Also, in the cancellation document on page 5/30, it states:

CEO Error - No/Incorrect Observation
The CEO failed to observe the vehicle in accordance with the council’s observation policy or failed to record the first time seen.
This option should be used where the CEO has failed to observe the vehicle in accordance with the council’s observation policy or failed to record the first time seen. One of the following example’s may apply; A) It is a contravention where five minutes observation should have been carried out but the CEO only records 3 minutes. B) CEO fails to record the first time seen. C) CEO fails to record the time he/she entered the street.

The question is, do I have a valid case and if so, please advise me on how best to word it by either 1.) or 2.) to win the appeal at the informal stage. Will they just say some BS like 'observation policy is not mandated by civil law' even though the council self-admits in their own documents that it should be followed or...?

P.S: I activated a 15 minute Free Parking Allocation via MiPermit which was due to start at 13:37 however it is unclear whether this FPA is able to be used on 'communal' Disabled Badge Holder bays with a time limit, and fixed hours of operation as it is not clearly prohibited nor is it clearly allowed on the Newham Council website. Maybe this is the reason the CEO tried to blag it in order to get his bonus for the week.

Thanks in advance!

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Assisted boarding is an exemption but with Newham you will probably have to provide evidence of need as to why the passenger couldn't wait for you outside.

Observation time is just guidance and a CEO will issue a PCN if nothing seems to be going on. How long did it take to get and board the passenger?

I can't see any time stamps on the pics.

« Last Edit: August 03, 2024, 07:08:19 pm by stamfordman »

He is an elderly man who at the time was suffering from diarrhea and had to use the toilet after the Friday Prayer. It is very busy with over a 1000 attendees hence I had to go inside, look for him and make sure he’s alright and well, and escort him out (as he’s elderly). Don’t know what kind of evidence they would want for that hence why I haven’t submitted anything at this point

It took roughly 3 minutes and he was gone by the time I came which was at 13:35. Had he followed the observation time policy, he would’ve seen me coming but oh well. Also the cancellation document says that Option A) is the scenario where observation time was meant to be 5 mins (in my case: 2 mins with code 40) but CEO gave 3 mins… leads to cancelled PCN according to them.

This is why I’m confused, I can easily get this PCN cancelled with a sick note however I don’t want to go through that hassle if there is a procedural impropriety, and would like someone to help me draft ‘the perfect informal challenge’

Draft a polite request for cancellation based on assisted boarding of a person with xxxx needs and nowhere else to wait near briefly and say you must have just missed the CEO as you were in and out in x minutes.
There's no point in having a go at observation time as that's not what you are claiming an exemption for and it's not something you can anyway.
Generally, assisted boarding/alighting takes as long as necessary but no more.
Post it here first.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2024, 07:33:17 pm by stamfordman »

This is a draft of my informal challenge, please help me word it better or find any more standpoints on which to correctly appeal the PCN from. I would favour a quick response by anyone as I only have until 16th August to appeal this PCN within the discount period.



'Hello, I write to you today explaining why I firmly believe that this PCN was issued in error to my vehicle and why I believe that it should be cancelled in lieu of my specific circumstances, as well as a error committed by the CEO whilst issuing the PCN to my car.

My itinerary for the day involved picking up an elderly person (a friend of my father who has significant trouble with walking and has diabetes. He also had diarrhea on that specific day). He came to the mosque for Friday Prayers with another person and I was tasked with picking him up and dropping him to his house. I was planning on praying my Friday Prayers later in the day so I only came to pick him up and drop him off.

I circled the entire surrounding area TWICE of the mosque in question, Masjid Tauheed and could not find a single bay unoccupied to pick him up from. (I have a Zone E permit which allows me to wait/park in any resident/shared use bay). The only bay that was available, was this specific Blue Badge bay.

I am aware that in Newham, vehicles are permitted to stop and wait to pick up/drop off passengers for a total of 2 minutes, OR *longer* if need be due to a disability/elderly age etc. I am able to provide evidence in support of this claim, however it is unclear what type of evidence is required to substantiate it, therefore I will be omitting it temporarily for now. These rules regarding alighting passengers is clearly stated in a publicly available document which outlines the scenarios of incorrectly issued PCN's in Newham. It also states that there isn't an exemption under 'Picking up and setting down' should the contravening codes be: 62,47,99,48 but my Contravention code is 40, which implies that I was perfectly and legally permitted to wait for 2 minutes OR as long as necessary in that specific disabled bay

I arrived at 13:35. I tried to locate a CEO within the vicinity to explain my circumstances however they was not to be seen on East Avenue, nor on the corner of High Street North. I then made ways to assist my dad's elderly and disabled friend as due to the extreme overcrowding in the Friday Prayers, I feared that he would get lost and would not be able to find my car. Also, since he was suffering from diarrhea, I needed to make sure that he was OK and that I can safely escort him from the mosque to my car swiftly and quickly to avoid getting a PCN.

However, upon arrival at 13:38, I had to my surprise been issued a PCN and I was unable to find the CEO. On the PCN, the observation time was 0 minutes i.e the CEO did not follow council policy regarding Observation periods. This is clearly set out in the Newham Parking Policy Procedures document under sub-heading 4.4. It does say that there are some very serious offences which do not warrant a observation period, however my alleged offence does not fall under that as in Appendix C of the same document, the observation time period for a contravention code 40 offence is listed as '2 minutes'. Had CEO no.1462 followed standard council policy and waited these 2 minutes, He would've seen me approaching my vehicle and I would have made my circumstances clear then. Also, in the aforementioned document regarding incorrectly issued PCN's, on Page 5/30, it states that one of the cancellation options for these incorrect PCN's are 'CEO Error - No/incorrect Observation. Option A - It is a contravention where 2 minutes observation should have been carried out but the CEO in my case recorded 0 minutes observation i.e none

I should also state that I had applied a 15-minute free parking allocation just in case, and nowhere on MiPermit or Newham Council website does it state that this is NOT allowed to be used in a disabled *non-resident* bay or does it say that this free parking allocation is ONLY for resident/shared use bays.

In light of this, I highly request that you cancel this PCN due to CEO error and the fact that I was assisting a passenger with boarding. Thank you

I have got 2 days left to make an informal challenge within the discount period. I'd really appreciate if someone could help me out and check over.

To be honest, it is a bit long, so I've cut it down a bit. I'm also not sure what you mean by
:
Quote
had applied a 15-minute free parking allocation just in case, and nowhere on MiPermit or Newham Council website does it state that this is NOT allowed to be used in a disabled *non-resident* bay or does it say that this free parking allocation is ONLY for resident/shared use bays.

Dear Sirs

Re PCN <number> dated <dd/mm/yyyy> served at <location>

I dispute liability for the above PCN, on the grounds that the contravention did not occur, for the reason of boarding a passenger.

In explanation, my itinerary for the day involved picking up an elderly person (a friend of my father who has significant trouble with walking and has diabetes. He also had diarrhea on that specific day). He came to the mosque for Friday Prayers with another person and I was tasked with picking him up and dropping him at his house.

I am aware that the law permits vehicles to stop and wait to pick up/drop off passengers, provided the time taken is reasonable in the circumstances.   Those circumstances can include assisting disabled/elderly people and also children and includes collecting them from a nearby location.

Arriving at 13:35, I parked and proceeded to the mosque to collect and to assist my dad's elderly and disabled friend to my car.

However, upon arrival back at the car with my passenger at 13:38, I had to my surprise been issued a PCN. On the PCN, the observation time was shown as 0 minutes On inspection of the Newham Parking Policy Procedures, it is clear that the CEO did not follow council policy regarding Observation periods. This is clearly set out in the Newham Parking Policy Procedures document under sub-heading 4.4. It does say that there are some very serious offences which do not warrant a observation period, however my alleged offence does not fall under that as in Appendix C of the same document, the observation time period for a contravention code 40 offence is listed as '2 minutes'. Had CEO no.1462 followed standard council policy and waited these 2 minutes, He would've seen me approaching my vehicle and I would have made my circumstances clear then. Also, in the aforementioned document regarding incorrectly issued PCN's, on Page 5/30, it states that one of the cancellation options for these incorrect PCN's are 'CEO Error - No/incorrect Observation. Option A - It is a contravention where 2 minutes observation should have been carried out but the CEO in my case recorded 0 minutes observation i.e none

I should also state that as a resident, I had obtained a 15-minute free parking allocation just in case, and nowhere on MiPermit or Newham Council website does it state that this is NOT allowed to be used in a disabled *non-resident* bay nor does it say that this free parking allocation is ONLY for resident/shared use bays.

In light of the above circumstances, I request that you cancel this PCN because I was engaged in assisting a passenger with boarding my car, and in addition, arrange to retrain your CEO in the correct procedures for serving PCNs.

YOUrs faithfully


UPDATE: I got a rejection letter from Newham Council, and the person behind my appeal barely bothered to read my appeal in detail as she mentions this (probably an automated/ready-made copypasta paragraph. Please advise on next steps, and whether or not I will still have the opportunity to pay the discounted rate, even after a potential formal representation rejection.

What kind of hard evidence would I need to supply to prove my circumstances, as the guidance she gave and the guidance of the council is VERY vague??? Also, my legitimate point about the incorrect observation time was not even acknowledged. She even said (highlighted) that the CEO didn't note any exempt activity during their observation... I wonder why that is lol. The CEO gave 0 minutes observation time, which is against Newham's own policy for disabled non-resident bays (2 minutes).

I am thinking of appealing formally, when the notice to owner comes, under 'The contravention did not occur' reason. Is that suitable? [ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Here is the rejection letter, it failed to attach!
Here is the link for it: https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:EU:de335904-b551-4351-b229-70cf3e793332

Well they are playing hard ball and will not reoffer the discount as I read it. So you have to decide. I agree that the rejection letter is a failure to consider. Can you provide proof etc ?
« Last Edit: September 11, 2024, 07:43:02 pm by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Well since I didn't park in contravention and there was also a clear and obvious CEO Error on the PCN that they don't want to acknowledge, I don't want to pay. I'll happily pay if I was liable and at fault.

Well, their informal challenge portal is not very helpful in terms of giving you any of the statutory grounds. Let's see what happens when the Notice to Owner is received. And if the grounds are irrelevant, wrong or incomplete on the website, then that is winnable at the Tribunal.

https://bit.ly/2ALghSS

Adjudications - key cases

629 ff.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2024, 08:03:46 pm by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

The discounted sum of £65 is actually on offer until 24th Sept.

It sounds like they will reconsider when presented with 'hard evidence' so I would go back to them with medical info, note from imam?, pic of person concerned maybe.

So, in terms of assisted boarding and that only, what hard evidence would be suitable? I don't think I can get a note from the imam as he wasn't involved. However, I can definitely get medical evidence to prove that he needed help with boarding, and I had to leave my car parked for 2 minutes to do so. The question is, what medical evidence would be suitable as it isn't clear... he did have diarrhea that day. Don't know if that is excusable.

Would a sick note be sufficient, or what about a witness statement signed by the person I was picking up, my dad's friend...
It's very hard to think of 'hard evidence' that they would require.

Either way, the CEO didn't observe my car for the 2 minutes that I was gone to assist him in boarding. I mentioned assisted boarding without evidence as I didn't think it would be needed, and wasn't clear on what exact evidence was needed to prove my version of events. But I want to mainly try appeal from the technicality of incorrect observation time, as if the CEO observed as per Newham policy, I would have made clear my circumstances to him and I wouldn't have got the ticket in the first place.