Author Topic: Newham council, London , Contravention code 26, rejected informal appeal  (Read 3932 times)

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I need advice on two PCNs I got issued by Newham Council, London on the same night (at 22:35 and 5:11).

The contravention stated: 'Parked in a special enforcement area more than 50 cm from the edge of the carriageway and not within a designated parking space.'

See photos in - https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/mo550rgn68rfpn67xclvy/ACGZkjH-YiJQ6wUD3OeC3n0?rlkey=pluxsknl09mr0d8hr64ta2xqd&st=kot70fr9&dl=0.

See location: https://maps.app.goo.gl/XsMNtfXdgnZghL439

I have sent informal appeals for both tickets saying no contravention has occurred as my car is less than 50cm from the kerb and that there are no lines drawn designating parking spaces, so I couldn’t have been out of boundary. Also in the appeal for the 5 am ticket I have stated, the simple fact that I was in bed at 10 pm when both of these tickets were issued and was not able to move the car when the 1st ticket was issued.

They have rejected my appeal by sending me copy/paste letters stating the actual reason was that I double parked another vehicle
There was only one car in the vicinity that could be seen as blocked by my car and actually, when I was removing the tickets from my car, my neighbour pulled his car back to that same spot - a Black Toyota Prius LO08 HXV). So in fact he wasn't blocked as he was able to get out and back in. It's a subjective judgement of the traffic officer, which was wrong and it's his word against mine.

I've read that parking more than 50cm away from the kerb classifies you as double parked. I think it's pretty clear that my car is less than 50cm from the kerb, but unfortunately, I didn't think of taking a photo with a tape measure. I included a photo with tape measure of my tyre diameter for scale and also a photo to show how far is 50cm from the kerb. I think from those it's pretty clear my car is within 50cm from the kerb.

I should also mention that before going to bed I saw another car parked opposite mine (spot 3 on annotated photo) which was in fact blocking three cars: my car, my neighbour’s car mentioned earlier and another car (cars 1,2,4). I don't have a photo of this vehicle as it was already gone in the morning when I realized I got a ticket. This blocking vehicle has also received a ticket so the council must have photos taken by the traffic warden.

I'd be very grateful for your advice on this matter.

Should I try and take this further with a formal appeal? For which tickets and what should I state in appeals? Would a written statement from my neighbour saying that he was able to move his car be of any significance here?

Please let me know if I can provide any more information.

Kind regards,
Blaz


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Re: Newham council, London , Contravention code 26, rejected informal appeal
« Reply #1 on: »
Their pics show you parked right by the kerb surely.

This is a wrong alleged contravention - for code 26 you have to be both more than 50cm from a kerb and outside a parking space.

Code 24 is perhaps what they should have given - Not parked correctly within the markings of the bay or space.



Re: Newham council, London , Contravention code 26, rejected informal appeal
« Reply #2 on: »
It is so blatantly obvious the contravention did not occur, if they are obdurate and you have to go to adjudication, demand costs.

Re: Newham council, London , Contravention code 26, rejected informal appeal
« Reply #3 on: »
Thank you for getting back so quick!

So just to be clear - given they stated a wrong contravention code I should go ahead and make a formal representation?

Can they change the code to 24 post factum? Even then, as you can see from the photos there are no lines indicating parking bays on the entire street.

My understanding is that they are saying I double parked - my layman's interpretation of 'double parked' is that I blocked another vehicle from moving out of the parking space. Is that even the issue here or is it actually just down to the 50 cm?

It baffles me if that's the case as even after 'I have carefully considered your comments...' they still insist it's more than half a metre  ???  from the kerb and reject the appeal.

What's going on here?

Re: Newham council, London , Contravention code 26, rejected informal appeal
« Reply #4 on: »
Sorry.....literally at the same time as Incandescent. Didn't see.

Thanks to both!
« Last Edit: November 12, 2024, 06:04:50 pm by Blaz »

Re: Newham council, London , Contravention code 26, rejected informal appeal
« Reply #5 on: »
Post the PCN so we can be sure but the rejection cites the wrong contravention.

No, they can't allege something different to what is on the PCN.


Re: Newham council, London , Contravention code 26, rejected informal appeal
« Reply #6 on: »
Ahh sorry missed it - it's also in the Dropbox now.

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« Last Edit: November 12, 2024, 06:12:31 pm by Blaz »

Re: Newham council, London , Contravention code 26, rejected informal appeal
« Reply #7 on: »
The second one is a continuous contravention if car not moved so that must be cancelled but it isn't the contravention alleged anyway.

Be careful as if Newham can get a tow truck in there they'll whip your car off to the pound...


Re: Newham council, London , Contravention code 26, rejected informal appeal
« Reply #8 on: »
'Be careful as if Newham can get a tow truck in there they'll whip your car off to the pound...'


Look at the times - 22:35 and 5:11. I was unconscious.

I do get what you mean. I moved it as soon as I saw the ticket of course.

Re: Newham council, London , Contravention code 26, rejected informal appeal
« Reply #9 on: »
I would wait for the NTOs for both.

Are you the registered keeper and is the v5C logbook address correct.

As this high stakes - £260 - wait for other views but the second one cannot stand whatever.

Re: Newham council, London , Contravention code 26, rejected informal appeal
« Reply #10 on: »

'I would wait for the NTOs for both.'

   Will do!


'Are you the registered keeper and is the v5C logbook address correct.'

  Yes to both.


'As this high stakes - £260 - wait for other views but the second one cannot stand whatever.'

  Thank you, you've been very helpful!

Yes, any other views on this are welcome and much appreciated.  :)

Re: Newham council, London , Contravention code 26, rejected informal appeal
« Reply #11 on: »
The same CEO ticketed you at 22:35 and then at 5:11. Welcome to Newham... I'll bet the tow truck was in the area. 

Re: Newham council, London , Contravention code 26, rejected informal appeal
« Reply #12 on: »
DO NOT give up with this.
Newham are notorious for not understanding the alleged contravention.

I'm happy to represent you at tribunal if it gets that far (and probably will)

Re: Newham council, London , Contravention code 26, rejected informal appeal
« Reply #13 on: »
Thanks Neil!

After receiving the input here, I feel reassured I'm not going mad and will take this further.

I'm curious about how the process will go from here.

I understand after 2 weeks they will issue me an NTO and I can then make a formal representation.

Is this with a written appeal again? What arguments should I state? Just simply say: 'My car was less then 50cm from the kerb. See photo.'?

Sorry, silly questions, but everything just seems so Kafkaesque. Yeah, welcome to Newham. I've lived here for more than 10 years and parked my car in the exact same spot during that time. And one night - a double whammy.  ???

'I'm happy to represent you at tribunal if it gets that far (and probably will)'

So you think this formal representation will be rejected as well and then I have to go to a tribunal.

What happens there? Do I need to hire someone to represent me?

Sorry, question overload - you guys have been tremendously helpful and I really appreciate it!
« Last Edit: November 12, 2024, 08:45:54 pm by Blaz »

Re: Newham council, London , Contravention code 26, rejected informal appeal
« Reply #14 on: »
Thanks Neil!

After receiving the input here, I feel reassured I'm not going mad and will take this further.

I'm curious about how the process will go from here.

I understand after 2 weeks they will issue me an NTO and I can then make a formal representation.
Yes but they have up to 6 months to serve an NtO

Is this with a written appeal again? What arguments should I state? Just simply say: 'My car was less then 50cm from the kerb. See photo.'?
Yes, another in writing. Remind me when you get the NtO and I'll suggest some wording.

Sorry, silly questions, but everything just seems so Kafkaesque. Yeah, welcome to Newham. I've lived here for more than 10 years and parked my car in the exact same spot during that time. And one night - a double whammy.  ???

'I'm happy to represent you at tribunal if it gets that far (and probably will)'

So you think this formal representation will be rejected as well and then I have to go to a tribunal.
My friend was rejected at NtO stage.
We won his case at tribunal (actually me because he was on holiday). Hearing took two minutes.
Registering an appeal at tribunal is easy and is done online. I prefer to do this for you myself.

What happens there? Do I need to hire someone to represent me?
No, you can do it yourself but we do it for free as we understand the process.

Sorry, question overload - you guys have been tremendously helpful and I really appreciate it!