Author Topic: Enfield Council PCN during an event day restriction  (Read 686 times)

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Pastmybest

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Re: Enfield Council PCN during an event day restriction
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2024, 04:02:34 pm »
The OP does not have to prove the signs are in place that is for the council. I would put them to proof that they were
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confused-z

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Re: Enfield Council PCN during an event day restriction
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2024, 10:04:09 am »
Hello Team,

So the driver sent the following response to the Council when appealing this PCN.


And the Council sent back the following response.


How should the driver proceed?

Thank you

H C Andersen

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Re: Enfield Council PCN during an event day restriction
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2024, 12:45:55 pm »

The driver says '..during their journey they did not see any[applicable] signs..'.

The authority say 'There are road signs on display at the entrance and exit (?) of the Controlled Parking Zone'

We don't know whether 'did not see' = they weren't there.

I understand the comment about 'putting the authority to strict proof' but IMO this isn't the legal test, it's balance of probability that adequate signage was in place.


confused-z

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Re: Enfield Council PCN during an event day restriction
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2024, 09:21:30 am »
Thanks for the reply. So should I take it that the driver doesn't have much grounds for appeal and should just pay the reduced penalty?

Thanks again for all your help thus far.

H C Andersen

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Re: Enfield Council PCN during an event day restriction
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2024, 09:45:39 am »
Only the driver knows whether they did or did not see these signs on their entrance and whether, if not, this was due to them not being there or the driver's inattention.

The starting point is that we don't know and neither would an adjudicator.

But we're not there yet, there's the NTO stage to manage before the keeper has to make a double or quits decision with adjudication.

Who is the registered keeper and are their DVLA details current?



confused-z

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Re: Enfield Council PCN during an event day restriction
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2024, 09:59:31 am »
The driver is the registered keeper on the vehicle and their details are up to date on the DVLA.

confused-z

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Re: Enfield Council PCN during an event day restriction
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2024, 05:56:35 pm »
So should the driver just wait till they receive the NTO? As the driver already appealed, then I thought this indicates the driver received the PCN physically and therefore the discounted rate will no longer apply if the driver waits for the NTO as it will pass the 14 days discount period.

The driver is just worried that they will have to pay the full amount as it seems the grounds to appeal this PCN is quite low, so it would be sensible to just pay the discounted amount and be done with this PCN?

H C Andersen

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Re: Enfield Council PCN during an event day restriction
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2024, 06:17:54 pm »
It is common and almost universal practice for an authority to re-offer the discount even after unsuccessful reps at the NTO stage..and this is the stage with the higher likelihood of material authority procedural c**k-ups.
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cp8759

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Re: Enfield Council PCN during an event day restriction
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2024, 06:17:48 pm »
The OP does not have to prove the signs are in place that is for the council. I would put them to proof that they were
Exactly, further to that I'm going to request the council records in any event.

@confused-z in the meantime please give us the PCN number and the number plate.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

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confused-z

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Re: Enfield Council PCN during an event day restriction
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2024, 05:09:58 pm »
Hi cp8759, I got itchy feet, and with other things going on in my life then I didn't want to go through the hassle of taking this to court so I just ended up paying the discounted price. So thank you for all the help but I don't think there is anything further needed for this post.

Thanks again.

cp8759

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Re: Enfield Council PCN during an event day restriction
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2024, 11:57:52 pm »
Hi cp8759, I got itchy feet, and with other things going on in my life then I didn't want to go through the hassle of taking this to court
There is no court for PCNs ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order