Author Topic: Newham, code 52m failing to comply with a prohibition on certain type of vehicles, Royal Albert Way E16 & Gallions Round  (Read 225 times)

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correcthaunt

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@Incandescent, thanks for getting back to me. Only PN76007402 is at Royal Albert Way E16 & Gallions Round. The other 3 (i.e. PN62628875, PN62645400, PN62647643) refer to a different location also in Newham but I found out about it while dealing with PN76007402 hence in this thread.

correcthaunt

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@Enceladus, thanks for taking the time and looking into this.

You understanding and summary is correct.

There were 6 PCNs in total.
#1 PN75748188 – paid and case closed
#2 PN75748213 – paid and case closed
#3 PN76007402 – This is what the post is about re Albert Way
#4 PN62628875 – never knew about this until they mentioned it in the e-mail when dealing with #1 and #2 as council sent it to a wrong address.
#5 PN62645400 – never knew about this until they mentioned it in the e-mail when dealing with #1 and #2 as council sent it to a wrong address.
#6 PN62647643 – never knew about this until they mentioned it in the e-mail when dealing with #1 and #2 as council sent it to a wrong address.

Council made a mistake with the first two so when writing to them I found out about the #4, #5 & #6 which are for the car being in the yellow box. I am going to sit tight and wait for them to register the debt with the Traffic Enforcement Centre.

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I note that the Ack receipt for your reps doesn't actually quote the PCN number, just an enquiry number. Is that true of the online Ack emails for the other PCNs?
Yes this is true for the other 2. I submitted my defence for PN75748188, PN75748213 & PN76007402. These were then posted to them too. I have 3 different references for that and none of them refers to the actual PCN.

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The V5c for your car was last updated 07/09/2021. So I would suggest that the Registered Keeper address was likely incorrect prior to Sept 2021 and this is why you did not receive any of the notices for these three PCNs.
I requested a copy of these PCNs as per advice from @cp8759 and the address they had on file was indeed incorrect. I am not sure how this happened as I have been there since 2012 and because everything else is correct (first line, city and postcode) except the house number. It should be 39 but it’s 33. So, they sent this to a wrong address.

Re PN76007402 I want to appeal to the Adjudicator and I am quite confident it can be won as I have seen quite a lot of people here win this. That said, not so confident regarding the other 3. Although I have no faith that this will get ever registered as it has been so long that they would have done by now. That said I would like to know 2 things regarding them:
1. What would be my line of defence here for PN62628875, PN62645400, PN62647643?
2. Is there statutory limitation period i.e. an expiration date for council to register this with TEC?

Statutory Declaration (form PE3)
I also would like to clarify the process surrounding the Statutory Declaration (form PE3) & debt registration with the Traffic Enforcement Centre (TEC). Can I sign and have witnesses sign the PE3 form before the debt is officially registered with the TEC? I.e. can the date on the PE3 form precede the date of registration with TEC ensuring it's ready to submit as soon as the debt is registered? I am aware that I cannot submit the PE3 to the court or TEC until after the debt has been registered as it will get rejected.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2025, 01:17:17 pm by correcthaunt »

cp8759

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So let me summarise where I think we are:

PN76007402: You say that you made representations both online and by post, do you have a screenshot of the confirmation page or an acknowledgment email confirming that you made representations?

Also I note you made a Subject Access Request for this PCN, correct me if I'm wrong but this is still outstanding so for all we know, it might be that the council did receive your representation and it's the Notice of Rejection that got lost in the post?

PN62628875, PN62645400 & PN62647643: for these you really have nothing at all to worry about as the council is guilty of a gross delay in progressing the case, have a read of Paul Richard Davis v The Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea (1970198981, 30 March 1998)

That decision has stook the test of time and adjudicator who made that decision went on to become a High Court Judge, then a judge of the Court of Appeal, and is currently the President of Welsh Tribunals, so he knows a thing or two.

Normally a delay of over 3 / 4 months is a bar to enforcement, in this case the delay is several years so there's no real doubt about what the outcome would be.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

correcthaunt

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PN76007402: You say that you made representations both online and by post, do you have a screenshot of the confirmation page or an acknowledgment email confirming that you made representations?

Yes I have submitted my defence and got evidence of posting it both via post office as well as online. In the original post of this thread we have a copy of my representation submitted to them, and picture/screenshot of acknowledgments. Proof of the online submission is W26800139 but it doesn’t state the actual PCN on it. That’s just Newham’s system though

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Also I note you made a Subject Access Request for this PCN, correct me if I'm wrong but this is still outstanding so for all we know, it might be that the council did receive your representation and it's the Notice of Rejection that got lost in the post?
Correct as per your suggestion I have asked them for a copy of the rejection. They said they would get back to me by 30th of January but nothing since. Even though they have provided the copies of the other request already. They did send me a letter saying to get in touch if I am struggling financially to repay it as they could help. I have posted a copy of that letter too.

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PN62628875, PN62645400 & PN62647643: for these you really have nothing at all to worry about as the council is guilty of a gross delay in progressing the case, have a read of Paul Richard Davis v The Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea (1970198981, 30 March 1998)
Understood, so I should complain to the council to have this registered with TEC. Once this is done I can appeal. Only way to really get this closed off?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2025, 03:24:00 pm by correcthaunt »

cp8759

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PN76007402: You say that you made representations both online and by post, do you have a screenshot of the confirmation page or an acknowledgment email confirming that you made representations?
They said they would get back to me by 30th of January but nothing since.
I think we can't really do anything until the 30 January deadline has expired.

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PN62628875, PN62645400 & PN62647643: for these you really have nothing at all to worry about as the council is guilty of a gross delay in progressing the case, have a read of Paul Richard Davis v The Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea (1970198981, 30 March 1998)
Understood, so I should complain to the council to have this registered with TEC. Once this is done I can appeal. Only way to really get this closed?
Yes. It is possible that they might cancel it at the complaint stage if they realise their case is hopeless, but if they want to carry on then they will have to issue new PCNs to you once the previous ones are cancelled by TEC, if that happens you will have to make a representation based on the delay and then if the council rejects, you'll have to appeal to the tribunal.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order