Author Topic: Newham, 53J - Failing to comply with a pedestrian zone restriction, Grosvenor Rd/Upton Lane  (Read 248 times)

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The General

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Hello


I'm hoping someone can assist me with my issue. I've received two PCNs for the same contravention and at the same location, one of which has been successfully appealed at London Tribunals but the other is dragging out and I'm now worried about it.


The PCN dated 10/10/24 was received and after making representations to the council a Notice of further evidence was sent to me dated 05/11/24. The council requested that my evidence be sent to them within 7 days and this was done on 11/11/24.


The next letter received was a Charge certificate dated 23/12/24 which was ignored because the next step was then to make a Statutory declaration at the appropriate time. To my surprise another letter was received dated 10/01/2025 and this was the start of my problems.


The letter offered support to help me pay the PCN if experiencing financial difficulties and a link was provided where an enquiry could be made. Unfortunately for me after following the link to see what this was all about there were other options that were relevant to me.

So an enquiry was made and on the dropdown menu provided the first option was selected which was
"I have submitted a PCN challenge or appeal, but have not received a response". The response from the "Debt recovery team" was that a response to my representations was sent on 15/11/2024 and they attached a copy of the letter. Also the payment was reduced to £65 "as a gesture of goodwill".

After reviewing the copy of the letter to my surprise the council stated that there was a failure to provide the evidence requested in the Notice of further evidence letter. So another enquiry was made to highlight that the evidence was provided and on time but they said it was too late to make representations.

So yet another enquiry was made stating that the council were in breach of the law by not considering my evidence and asked whether or not they would comply with the law. This time the response was that I've been advised previously that it is too late to consider my representations.

So the situation as of right now is that the payment has reverted back to £195 and I'm waiting for the TEC fee to be added onto this. Once this happens I'm intending on submitting my Statutory declaration but I've never done this before and I'm worried that I'll eventually be liable for the PCN.

So my first question is given the back and forth with the council post the Charge certificate does the reasons box on the Statutory declaration need to be completed now?

And my second question is if I'm liable for the PCN and a payment is made can legal action be taken against the council to recover my payment for being in breach of the law?

« Last Edit: February 06, 2025, 07:36:16 am by John U.K. »

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Incandescent

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First of all can you delete these odd <p> and <p/> characters that make reading your post difficult. Then please post up the relevant documents. Redact only name and address.

The General

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Sorry about that but the <p> and </p> characters didn't display in the "Preview" and they were only included because my initial "Preview" compressed all of my paragraphs into one giant paragraph. So basically the "Preview" function doesn't work.

So this is hopefully a new paragraph and I'd like to ask if it is possible to edit my original post to remove the <p> and </p> characters and to also include links to the relevant documents as I've had a look around and can't seem to find anything but surely this is possible?

I'd also like to highlight that this is my first time posting on a forum and I'm still learning about how it all works so please bear with me while I'm getting to grips with everything.

John U.K.

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I've sorted the paragraphs for you. As Incandescent says, we need to see the documents - guideto posting is here
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

Using the attachment method is not recommended - try imgur or https://imgbb.com/

Please post the correspondence to and from in date order, and include a screenshot of the PCN history.

Quote
I'm waiting for the TEC fee to be added onto this. Once this happens I'm intending on submitting my Statutory declaration

Have you contacted TEC to see if debt has been registered?



Quote
I'd also like to highlight that this is my first time posting on a forum and I'm still learning about how it all works so please bear with me while I'm getting to grips with everything.

Don't worry - we all had to start somewhere :)


The General

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Thanks for editing my original post.

Unfortunately I've already previously been through that link and settled on using Google drive as this was one of the options. I've also already previously created the links and these can be found below.

(Interestingly imgur was considered but it wasn't possible for me to register with the site without using a third party login which I've never done before so that put me off.)

I'm not sure what you mean by PCN history - the Newham website only shows the current position and in terms of the TEC fee this is what I'm looking at to determine when the debt has been registered.

PCN
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Dgl2AeqIacdYugQH8LCR8bggXZpqLkIc/view

Notice of further evidence
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1k8mHv9YnkN5KHt22CpOGTfHCSmziiYHB/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/15BQ9oeZVwbxcgqCBUW8eyfG-_w3tSDrC/view

Charge certificate
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1j07qPVfqgTl-tsIk78stXDkZLH_LpUxd/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dChTTO50oPpRDWXu93tmEiN03sCAN0yv/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pjcc1JCHf2FZw2cBB8OYQF7_LUnyc1ZW/view

Offer of support
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Pst7Tm4AlM9m0YDisMMo6zm8WN0CI7iM/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KiGCjl-Sg13L5mWX537MxrD8HoIQRLMT/view

After this point is when I've raised multiple enquiries with the EA where the responses came back via email and copying and pasting these here will probably make the post difficult to read - is there another way?

The General

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So I've worked out a way to get the emails into a post without copying and pasting the text but I've also just realised that my previous post doesn't include images as per the instructions. So my next post will include all of those images and then the rest of the images and that will be all of the correspondence!

Hippocrates

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Could you simply tell me at which stage you are?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2025, 07:42:01 pm by Hippocrates »
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

The General

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Yes I’m just waiting for the TEC fee to be added onto the PCN outstanding amount and once that happens will make a Statutory declaration.

Hippocrates

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Thanks, When this part is resolved, there is a website issue re grounds.
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

The General

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I've just tried posting my correspondence but none of my images displayed so the post was edited and I'd just tried including the Google maps image but that didn't work. So the post was edited again but this time I'd just tried including the PCN image but that didn't work either.

I've checked that the URL displays the Google drive image so that works but when I'm using the "Insert an image" button and including the URL it doesn't display. So I'm a bit stuck now and could do with some  assistance to get these images to display!
« Last Edit: February 09, 2025, 11:17:16 pm by The General »

Incandescent

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I've just tried posting my correspondence but none of my images displayed so the post was edited and I'd just tried including the Google maps image but that didn't work. So the post was edited again but this time I'd just tried including the PCN image but that didn't work either.

I've checked that the URL displays the Google drive image so that works but when I'm using the "Insert an image" button and including the URL it doesn't display. So I'm a bit stuck now and could do with some  assistance to get these images to display!
Space on the forum is limited, so you have to use a hosting site and then post a link to it. See John U.K's Post 3

John U.K.

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I agree it seems impossible to extract images from Google Dive to post them here. @stamfordman, oue resident images guru, may know a way.

For GSV, as per
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

use the advice there about 'copy link' and paste the link in your posts.

For images, I use https://ibb.co.uk

without problems.

The General

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Thanks for those replies. I’ve been doing a bit of research and it looks like Google drive images can’t be displayed in forums. Since all of my documents have already been uploaded there I’ll continue using that for now but will look into using something else. 

The initial correspondence is in Post #4 above and the rest of the correspondence has now been included below but most of this only exists because I’ve contacted Newham multiple times thinking that they would resolve the issues that have I’ve highlighted to them.

And just as a reminder I’m waiting for the TEC fee to be added onto the outstanding amount and when that happens will make my Statutory declaration but wanted to know if the reasons box now needs to be completed given the back and forth with Newham.   

Email to Newham
Unfortunately this is in the wrong place because I’d forgotten that this email needed to be included in Post #4 above but it should go after the Notice of further evidence documents in that post.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dbh3JaZF-aGF6K0dCr8PrJGHCFMKyWJf/view

Enquiry 1
This is the first correspondence to follow those in Post #4 above. This relates to an online enquiry being made and on the enquiry form I’d selected the option "I have submitted a PCN challenge or appeal, but have not received a response" and provided the following explanation - Date on PCN: 10/10/2024. After appealing a Notice of further evidence dated 05/11/2024 was received. Evidence was sent via email to parking.enquiries@newham.gov.uk on 11/11/2024. No response to my appeal has been received to date and instead a Charge Certificate was sent on 23/12/2024. Please review my appeal including the evidence sent via email and send me a response.

Enquiry response 1
The response to my enquiry was to send me via email a copy of the Notice of rejection letter and the PCN amount was reduced to £65 "as a gesture of goodwill". However in the letter it also states that I've failed to provide my supporting evidence but this is a false statement.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZOzTXAVCUq3IhvSnE9HBGykpmxsVFueE/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RrlQZtwqFrbO8hNNnNT8Iz_Y1E7g725M/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cJVkunZ58A03r-SMURFrxRBC5wrhvgjm/view

Enquiry 2
After realising that the supporting evidence provided was effectively disregarded another online enquiry was made as follows - I've previously raised an enquiry stating that I've submitted an appeal but have not received a response. The response to that enquiry was to send me a COPY of the notice of rejection however the ORIGINAL was never received by me and I'm therefore intending to make a statutory declaration to that effect. However I've noticed that there is a fundamental issue with how you have dealt with my appeal where you have stated that I've failed to provide my evidence within 7 days from 05/11/2024 whereas in actual fact my evidence was sent to you on 11/11/2024. Please process my appeal INCLUDING evidence sent via email and send me a response. Thanks

Enquiry response 2
The response to my enquiry was that it was too late to make representations.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wEseAbQ6nJhoLKtengdDi2pn6wF4loOJ/view

Enquiry 3
Since my enquiry was being taken as further representations another enquiry was made but this time I’d tried to use the law to get my point across although I'm not sure if my arguments were correct as I'm not from a legal background - Under the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003, specifically Schedule 1, Paragraph 1, Sub-paragraph 3 you may disregard representations received after the period of 28 days from the date of the PCN. Since my representations were provided to you within the 28 day period you do not have the legal right to disregard those representations. Also since my supporting evidence was provided to you within the deadline specified you also do not have the legal right to disregard that evidence.

Furthermore under the same Act, specifically Schedule 1, Paragraph 1, Sub-paragraph 7 you have a legal duty to consider my representations AND supporting evidence. Since you have ONLY considered my representations WITHOUT considering my supporting evidence you are currently in breach of the law. In light of this are you going to rectify the error you have made and comply with the law or are you going to leave things as they are and continue to be in breach of the law?


Enquiry response 3
The response this time was that I've already been advised that it is too late to consider my appeal as per legislation where once again my enquiry was being taken as further representations.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1C1RBaFcnEfCQ4Bkegng1eSUTccPxM2dG/view

Final enquiry
So one final enquiry was made but this time to confirm the final date on which the reduced payment of £65 could be made - So this is now my fourth enquiry and in each of my previous enquiries I've not been making any further representations outside of the time period allowed but have simply been raising enquiries into how my previously submitted representations which were submitted on time have been processed. Since you are unwilling to address the procedural issues that I've highlighted I've got one final enquiry. What is the final date on which I'm able to pay at the discounted amount because I've been sent conflicting information about this?

Final enquiry response
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fgWpbfhlNOwhngBHIvXs2Xdo2O2HROr0/view
« Last Edit: February 11, 2025, 12:52:46 am by The General »

The General

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I’m very happy to report that the PCN has now been cancelled.

I’ve managed to get this done by making a complaint to Newham although it wasn’t straightforward. The response to my complaint was to direct me to the PCN enquiry form and after explaining that I’d already raised multiple enquiries without my issue being addressed I’d given up on this approach.

However to my surprise a response came back where they actually investigated the issue but unfortunately they just provided a history of my enquiries, their responses and then stated that they hadn't disregarded my representations as they had sent me a response.

Since it became obvious that they were unable to properly investigate the issue I’d decided to ask them to do two things – 1. check their Inbox to find my email to them with my evidence and 2. look at the Notice of rejection where they state that I've failed to provide my evidence.

The final response acknowledged that I’d sent my evidence to them and that this evidence hadn’t been considered and they cancelled the PCN which also means I’ve managed to avoid the rest of the PCN process which is a huge relief.

Hippocrates

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Well done.  ;D
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899