Author Topic: Dart Charge PCN  (Read 235 times)

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markie76

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Dart Charge PCN
« on: September 21, 2024, 10:26:12 pm »
Hello,

Returning from a long weekend in Essex I found myself going over the Queen Elizabeth II bridge for the first time.
I saw the notice boards about paying the toll by midnight the day after and though that's good as I will get back late and maybe not even before midnight.
Of course next day I completely forgot to pay!!!

I now have a Dart Charge PCN and wondered if anyone could have a look at it whether there are any points to try and save myself £35 (which I could use better elsewhere  :( )

Links to PCN scans; (click the 2nd thumbnail)

PAGE 1;
][/url]

PAGE 2;
][/url]


Really appreciate it.

Thanks,

Mark
« Last Edit: September 21, 2024, 10:40:18 pm by markie76 »

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Incandescent

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Re: Dart Charge PCN
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2024, 10:50:32 pm »
There's something wrong with your attachment, because when I click on one of them it just gives a blank screen with the words "about:blank#blocked" in the tab title.

DART are normally forgiving of first time offenders, so it you ring them up, might cancel the PCN for you provided you pay the actual toll. There used to be a sentence at the bottom of the PCN somewhere that said this.

markie76

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Re: Dart Charge PCN
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2024, 11:09:38 pm »
There's something wrong with your attachment, because when I click on one of them it just gives a blank screen with the words "about:blank#blocked" in the tab title. Is there a better upload site to use?

DART are normally forgiving of first time offenders, so it you ring them up, might cancel the PCN for you provided you pay the actual toll. There used to be a sentence at the bottom of the PCN somewhere that said this.
Thank you for your reply.

The website says 'upload folder is full' so I had to upload to imgbb - the second thumbnail works for me?

I heard that they were doing that and I did email them but no reply yet.

Shortly after I bought the car my registration was cloned and I started getting various fines which included 2 Dart Charge PCN's. As soon as I got a crime reference and replied to Councils, Baliffs & Dart Charge, they were all cancelled. Police also confirmed they stopped the cloned vehicle and arrested the driver.

So while this is MY first Dart Charge PCN, the car has had 2 cancelled PCN's before due to the cloning.

Do you think that's why they didn't offer it to me?

Thanks,

Mark


Incandescent

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Re: Dart Charge PCN
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2024, 12:31:42 am »
No I don't think so. Delays by most enforcing authorities are normal when representations are submitted. You could always call them too.

If you want to read the actual regulations, here they are: -
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/1783/contents/made

H C Andersen

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Re: Dart Charge PCN
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2024, 09:29:14 am »
I heard that they were doing that [cancelling for first-time contraventions] and I did email them but no reply yet.

Pl post. If you've made representations then all you can do is wait for their response.

markie76

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Re: Dart Charge PCN
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2024, 11:36:39 am »
No I don't think so. Delays by most enforcing authorities are normal when representations are submitted. You could always call them too.

If you want to read the actual regulations, here they are: -
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/1783/contents/made

I heard that they were doing that [cancelling for first-time contraventions] and I did email them but no reply yet.

Pl post. If you've made representations then all you can do is wait for their response.

I have not yet made an appeal/representation.
All I have done is emailed Dart Charge customer services to ask about the 'First Contravention Offer' and they replied telling me to email the PCN team - which I did with just the question, no mention of the PCN reference.
But not received a reply in over a week.


Should I make an appeal, explaining about my registraion being cloned in 2017 and getting Dart Charge PCN's then, which were not actually me or my vehicle (but victim of a crime)?


Thanks,

Mark
« Last Edit: September 22, 2024, 11:39:42 am by markie76 »

Incandescent

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Re: Dart Charge PCN
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2024, 12:35:40 pm »
If time for a response to your email is running out, you should submit reps against the PCN as if you don't you'll lose all hope of getting it overturned. You need to state as a first time user of the crossing, you simply forgot to pay the bridge toll. You also understand that it is customary of DART to cancel a first time PCN provided the toll is paid. Point out that you had previously suffered cloning of your number plate, so there were previous PCNs issued against your vehicle, but these were cancelled following submission of the police crime details.

markie76

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Re: Dart Charge PCN
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2024, 09:48:24 am »
If time for a response to your email is running out, you should submit reps against the PCN as if you don't you'll lose all hope of getting it overturned. You need to state as a first time user of the crossing, you simply forgot to pay the bridge toll. You also understand that it is customary of DART to cancel a first time PCN provided the toll is paid. Point out that you had previously suffered cloning of your number plate, so there were previous PCNs issued against your vehicle, but these were cancelled following submission of the police crime details.
So I phoned them  and they;
1. Confirmed they  do still offer the 'First Contravention Warning' letter and request for payment of just the toll.
2. It doesn't apply to me as the vehicle registration is showing as having previous PCN's.

Obvious flaw here, if a vehicle which has previously been issued PCN's (or in my case cloned & issued PCN's) gets sold to a new owner who has never used the Dartford crossing before - they won't get the 'First Contravention Warning' on their first Dart Charge slip up. Well not automatically issued by their system.

So I was told to appeal and explain my situation.

Any advice/template on how to appeal this or should I ramble off my history with this vehicle in full and submit the Police letters & previous Dart Charge correspondence?

Thanks,

Mark

Incandescent

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Re: Dart Charge PCN
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2024, 10:34:33 am »
We don't offer templates as representations are better if they are written by the PCN recipient. However that doesn't stop you asking us to check your draft.

So prepare reps based on what you've told us here, and post them for a review. You need to get across the point that previous PCNs were due to cloned number plates.

markie76

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Re: Dart Charge PCN
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2024, 08:36:39 pm »
We don't offer templates as representations are better if they are written by the PCN recipient. However that doesn't stop you asking us to check your draft.

So prepare reps based on what you've told us here, and post them for a review. You need to get across the point that previous PCNs were due to cloned number plates.
Ok, I think I have made it clear I was the victim of number plate cloning by a disqualified driver - sorry it's long even after trying to shorten it - feedback most welcome. I need to email it as I have 2 days of my 14 day period left - I just hope their online portal accepts scans...  :-[
I got 4 Dart Charge PCN's in Dec 2017 against my registration due to number plate cloning - all cancelled in FEB18.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dear Sir/Madam,

Representation PCN: IOxxxxxxxx
Vehicle Registration: XX99 XXX

First Contravention with previously cloned vehicle registration.

On the evening of the 3 rd September 2024 I made my very first Dartford bridge crossing in the above
vehicle which I have owned since December 2017. I was relieved to see the signs that I had until the
day after the crossing to pay the toll charge as I was expecting to get back very late, possibly in the
early hours. The next day I completely forgot to pay the Dart Charge.

I spoke with your PCN helpline as I have been told for a first contravention you send a warning letter
with an opportunity to pay the toll charge. Your helpline confirmed this is still the case and checked my
PCN reference but stated this does not apply to me as the vehicle registration is showing as having
past PCN's issued.
I explained that after I purchased the car it was unused due to a medical emergency and being
hospitalised. When my post was brought to me in hospital I found Police letters for speeding and fuel
theft and also Dart Charge PCN’s. This was not due to my actions as I had not even used the car yet.
I reported the car as stolen to The Metropolitan Police. Soon the investigating officer contacted me to
confirm that my car is still where I left it and that Essex Police had arrested a disqualified driver
driving a vehicle cloned with my vehicle registration.

Timeline of events;
* 27NOV17 – Car purchased with BOS signed by seller. Car left in residential car park on SORN.
* 09DEC17 – Hospitalised.
* 18DEC17 – Vehicle declared as SORN.
* 25DEC17 – Had my post brought to me in hospital to find Dart Charge PCN’s & Police letter;
Dart Charge letters; PCN 1: dated 14DEC17 & Warning letter, and PCN 2: dated 14DEC17.
Essex Police S172 - speeding on A127 Southend Arterial Road for a date & time I was in
company of other people who can vouch for me.
Reported to Metropolitan Police, issued crime ref: CHS xxxxx25/12/2017.
* 27DEC17 – Email from Islington Police Officer 1xxxCN that they will be investigating the theft
of my car. (Islington Police crime ref: xxxxxxx/17)
* 28DEC17 – I am released from hospital.
* 31DEC17 – Email from Islington Police Officer 1xxxCN confirming;
My car is still in the car park and has not been stolen.
Essex Police have arrested a disqualified driver in a xxxxxxxxxx with my number plate and
having checked the chassis the male driver was using cloned plates. I should inform Dart
Charge & other agencies that there was a vehicle being driven using my license plate.
* JAN18 – Dart Charge Letters; PCN 3: dated 28DEC17 and PCN 4: dated 28DEC17.
* 06JAN18 – Essex Police letter from A/Roads Policing Sergent XXX investigating the speeding
offence requesting pictures of my car.
* 23JAN18 – Telephone enquiry to DVLA about getting new registration, suggested to write in with details for file.
* FEB18 – Dart Charge letter dated: 05FEB18 confirming acceptance of representation and 4
PCN’s have been cancelled.
* 22FEB18  – Representation to Sounthend Council for 2 PCN's.

Please would you reconsider this PCN as it is genuinely the first Dartford crossing made by me and
my vehicle.

The previous 4 PCN’s you have on your system for the registration: XX99 XXX are due to the
criminal actions of a disqualified driver using cloned number plates of my vehicle registration.

My Dart Charge PCN is my and my vehicles genuine ‘First Contravention’ and due to completely
forgetting to pay the £2.50 charge the day after my crossing.

Attached:
1. Essex Police closing case on offences between 8th December 2017 & 23rd December 2017 as believed to be due to cloned registration.
2. Islington Police Officer 1xxxCN email confirming disqualified driver was arrested using
cloned plates of my vehicle registration.
3. Dart Charge letter confirming representation accepted for the stated circumstances (cloned
number plate).
4. SORN confirmation email dated 18DEC17.

Kind regards,
« Last Edit: September 23, 2024, 10:07:42 pm by markie76 »

Incandescent

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Re: Dart Charge PCN
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2024, 10:04:48 pm »
Quote
Please would you reconsider this PCN as it is genuinely the first Dartford crossing made by me and
my vehicle.
I think I would alter this to:
" Would you please, therefore, in view of the reason for the previous PCNs, re-consider offering your well-established custom of allowing a first time non-payer to pay the road user charge and cancel the PCN."

markie76

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Re: Dart Charge PCN
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2024, 10:09:43 pm »
Quote
Please would you reconsider this PCN as it is genuinely the first Dartford crossing made by me and
my vehicle.
I think I would alter this to:
" Would you please, therefore, in view of the reason for the previous PCNs, re-consider offering your well-established custom of allowing a first time non-payer to pay the road user charge and cancel the PCN."
Yes sounds much better  :)
I'll get onto it and keep you posted.

Thank you.

markie76

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Re: Dart Charge PCN
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2024, 12:15:56 am »
Quote
Please would you reconsider this PCN as it is genuinely the first Dartford crossing made by me and
my vehicle.
I think I would alter this to:
" Would you please, therefore, in view of the reason for the previous PCNs, re-consider offering your well-established custom of allowing a first time non-payer to pay the road user charge and cancel the PCN."
Hello,

I've received a notice of rejection;
"You stated that you intended to pay the road user charge, but you forgot to make the
payment.
Whilst we acknowledge the circumstances you have highlighted, we do not accept that a ground in regulation 8(3) of the Road User Charging Schemes (Penalty Charges, Adjudication and Enforcement) (England) Regulations 2013 (as amended) has been established, or that there are compelling reasons why, in the particular circumstances of the case, the Penalty Charge Notice(s) (PCN(s)) should be cancelled.
This means we cannot accept the grounds (reasons) you gave us for representation, so this
letter is issued as a formal Notice of Rejection."

Sounds like forgetting to pay the charge is not an acceptable appeal reason, BUT;
"Although we have rejected your representation, on this occasion we are willing to apply discretion and accept a reduced payment." - £2.50 paid immediately!!!  ;D


I've attached the response for reference and Thank You all for your help and saving me £30 which I can put towards my MOT.

Keep up your excellent work.!!

Thanks again.

Mark

Scans





Incandescent

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Re: Dart Charge PCN
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2024, 12:42:14 am »
A result ! well done.