Free Traffic Legal Advice

Hello!

I parked on the 15th, got into the car park at 8:30am, read the sign and chose to do the second Check in Check out option using the ticket machine. I left my car there until the 17th, 17:50.

When I got to the vehicle, I got a PCN for the 15th, observation time 08:55-09:08 for the 15th. Contravention code 73, Parked without payment of the parking charge.

I fully intended on paying when I returned to my vehicle on the 17th, I wasn't sure what time I'd be back exactly (was getting a flight from the airport, and I didn't have the paybyphone app, so I thought best to Check Out when returning to my vehicle on the 17th). When I returned to the car park on the 17th, I went to Check Out on the machine, it checked me in again, and that's when my partner spotted the PCN on the vehicle, and I realised I should have used a different option. I checked out on the 17th before leaving and didn't pay anything for that day as the check in to check out time was so small.

My bank app has a pending charge on it for the 15th, from NEWCASTLE CC, and the more information states 'PARKING NEWCASTLE UPO GB' for £7.52, so I believe I have paid for the 15th. I also got a paper from the machine confirming I checked in on the 15th, which says it's not a valid ticket, time stamped at 8:36am check in. It autochecked me out at 6pm, so that charge should go through and should pay for the 15th.

I've attached photos of the signs, and in hindsight I should have installed the app or prepaid, as I do not believe I paid for the 16th and 17th as intended. I didn't realise that I would need to Check In every day I was using the car park for, but just that I'd check in when parking, then check out when returning to the car. It explains this on the paper I got from the machine, but I misread it and admit that is my mistake.

My question is, could I fight the charge for the lack of payment on the 15th, as I believe I have actually paid for that day of parking, or should I pay the lesser fine (£25) as I think I risk, if appealing, them realising I didn't pay for Saturday and Sunday which I haven't received a PCN for. Crucially, I'm not sure if there is CCTV in the carpark, but the PCN wasn't the type to include a photo of the vehicle.

Also when I say my car, I'm not the registered keeper, my fiance is, but I'm handling this on his behalf as he's dealing with some personal family matters at this time.

Here is the car park, but street view doesn't show the actual car park as it's off the main street tucked away. https://maps.app.goo.gl/6ebE52PtyDA9Zcdg7

Here are the imgur pics of the PCN, car park signs, and the paper I got from the machine. https://imgur.com/a/dvlkCvo

TIA!

OK, I'm here !
I read the instructions on the board, and for the Check In/Out option. According to the instruction on the board you can check in, and the system will automatically check you out at 18.00 if no Check Out is entered. So one has to assume that payment will be the per hour rate from check-in until 18.00 is reached.  So I think you did pay for the 15th and the instructions on the board would seem to confirm this, and also your bank statement. Indeed your receipt for the Check-In says what is supposed to happen - the value to pay is released at Check-Out.  Check out is either when you Check-out later in the day, or automatically at 18.00.  Quite why the CEO served a PCN for non-payment at 09.08, barely 30 minutes after you checked-in is beyond me; the conditions of the car park are that one checks-in then the hours are added-up until check-out. The CEO has to be wrong therefore, and you should submit reps on this basis.  The whole point of the Check-In/Out process is that time parked doesn't have to be anticipated in advance, it is worked out at Check-Out.

Note that the board also says it can take up to 5 days for payment to be taken.

For the other days, it is obvious that the car park regulations take every day separately, so to park on the 16th and 17th you need to check-in on each of those days. However, you didn't, so haven't paid for those days. I have to say the instructions on the board are not totally clear, but I think you should just concentrate on the PCN for the 15th which is totally counter to the Check-In/Out process.

OK, I'm here !
I read the instructions on the board, and for the Check In/Out option. According to the instruction on the board you can check in, and the system will automatically check you out at 18.00 if no Check Out is entered. So one has to assume that payment will be the per hour rate from check-in until 18.00 is reached.  So I think you did pay for the 15th and the instructions on the board would seem to confirm this, and also your bank statement. Indeed your receipt for the Check-In says what is supposed to happen - the value to pay is released at Check-Out.  Check out is either when you Check-out later in the day, or automatically at 18.00.  Quite why the CEO served a PCN for non-payment at 09.08, barely 30 minutes after you checked-in is beyond me; the conditions of the car park are that one checks-in then the hours are added-up until check-out. The CEO has to be wrong therefore, and you should submit reps on this basis.  The whole point of the Check-In/Out process is that time parked doesn't have to be anticipated in advance, it is worked out at Check-Out.

Note that the board also says it can take up to 5 days for payment to be taken.

For the other days, it is obvious that the car park regulations take every day separately, so to park on the 16th and 17th you need to check-in on each of those days. However, you didn't, so haven't paid for those days. I have to say the instructions on the board are not totally clear, but I think you should just concentrate on the PCN for the 15th which is totally counter to the Check-In/Out process.

Thank you so much! I'll just focus on the PCN for the 15th for sure, don't want to shoot myself in the foot with this. The £7.52 went through so has def left my account and been charged now also. Thank you again!

My primary reason for including this point was to get the fact that you paid for the period covered by the PCN front and centre because at present you don't have a receipt, only your 'Check-in' ticket - which should be enough, but a receipt would top and tail matters.

The VAT issue isn't a defence per se, but if it doesn't give VAT details then you could rattle their cage with it.

Quote from: H C Andersen on March 20, 2024, 03:41:09 pm

The VAT issue isn't a defence per se, but if it doesn't give VAT details then you could rattle their cage with it.

There wasn't a requirement to provide a VAT invoice to a non taxable entity.

How does the ticket machine know whether the motorist is a VAT-registered person?

@wisteria8 you should definitely appeal this all the way as you basically cannot lose. The council cannot issue a PCN retrospectively, it's too late so don't worry about the days when you didn't pay. We'll advise you each step of the way.

How does the ticket machine know whether the motorist is a VAT-registered person?

Clearly it doesn't.

The point was merely that not providing something that was not required would not be something to "rattle a cage" with, especially given that would only be a distraction at best.

In any event the value was below the level at which VAT needs to be itemised.

For future reference:

The City of Newcastle upon Tyne (Off Street Parking Places) Order 2021
The City of Newcastle upon Tyne (Off Street Parking Places) Order 2021 (Evening Charges and Sunday Charges Variation) Order 2022