3. Newcastle City Council - Code 73 - PCN because payment machine wasnt working so paid only on way out - Eldon square MSCP
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Author Topic: Newcastle City Council - Code 73 - PCN because payment machine wasnt working so paid only on way out - Eldon square MSCP  (Read 253 times)

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Y H

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Re: Newcastle City Council - Code 73 - PCN because payment machine wasnt working so paid only on way out - Eldon square
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2025, 01:26:12 pm »
Quote from: cp8759 on March 13, 2025, 10:54:25 am
I would go back to the council and ask what caused the failed payments to fail.

I would ask your bank the same question.

I have asked the council for the reason the payments failed.
I called the bank but they can’t see the failed payments from their end.
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Y H

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Re: Newcastle City Council - Code 73 - PCN because payment machine wasnt working so paid only on way out - Eldon square
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2025, 01:28:19 pm »

Informal reps have already been made, and there's an informal rejection on the opening post extending the discount to 21 March, so they can't serve the NTO before then. If they do, then it's an open and shut appeal on the penalty exceeds ground.
[/quote]

From what I understand do I have until 21st March?
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cp8759

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Re: Newcastle City Council - Code 73 - PCN because payment machine wasnt working so paid only on way out - Eldon square
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2025, 01:34:42 pm »
Quote from: Y H on March 13, 2025, 01:28:19 pm
From what I understand do I have until 21st March?
You don't have a deadline as such, but the penalty cannot increase before 21 March.

If the council issues a notice to owner you will get a further 28 days to make formal representations, but you can in principle make further informal representations before the notice to owner is served.

However experience teaches us that making a second round of informal representations is largely pointless as they are normally disregarded anyway. Getting some photos of the machine would be more useful for the purpose of making formal representations at the notice to owner stage.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
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Y H

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Re: Newcastle City Council - Code 73 - PCN because payment machine wasnt working so paid only on way out - Eldon square
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2025, 02:21:01 pm »
OK thank understood. I'll get some pictures after the weekend
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H C Andersen

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Re: Newcastle City Council - Code 73 - PCN because payment machine wasnt working so paid only on way out - Eldon square
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2025, 03:17:20 pm »
I forgot that informal reps have been rejected.

I would ask the question again...you have two declined transactions for amounts which appear to exceed the max. payable at the site. Could this have been the reason for refusal i.e. you had input parking rights requirements which were not available?
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cp8759

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Re: Newcastle City Council - Code 73 - PCN because payment machine wasnt working so paid only on way out - Eldon square
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2025, 03:33:04 pm »
Quote from: H C Andersen on March 13, 2025, 03:17:20 pm
I would ask the question again...
@H C Andersen you do this a lot, saying informal rejections should be followed by further informal representations. Can you think of a single example where this has not proven to be a complete waste of time? I am not aware of any case where a second round of informal representations has seen a PCN cancelled and I don't think we should waste OP's time with pointless endeavours.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Y H

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Re: Newcastle City Council - Code 73 - PCN because payment machine wasnt working so paid only on way out - Eldon square
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2025, 03:36:12 pm »
I chose the option to pay on the way out where they calculate how long I was there for.
As you can see in the screenshot attached, the amount declined was for £0.00  [ Guests cannot view attachments ]
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Y H

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Re: Newcastle City Council - Code 73 - PCN because payment machine wasnt working so paid only on way out - Eldon square
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2025, 03:14:26 pm »
Quote from: cp8759 on March 13, 2025, 10:54:25 am
I would go back to the council and ask what caused the failed payments to fail.

I would ask your bank the same question.

Below is the reply I got. He is out of office till Wednesday so I hope to get a further update then,

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H C Andersen

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Re: Newcastle City Council - Code 73 - PCN because payment machine wasnt working so paid only on way out - Eldon square
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2025, 03:49:36 pm »
I would ask the question again...you have two declined transactions for amounts which appear to exceed the max. payable at the site. Could this have been the reason for refusal i.e. you had input parking rights requirements which were not available?

Cannot of course be a question for the council, it's a question for the OP who posted evidence of two failed transactions (we now now there were 3) for amounts which exceeded the maximum payable at the site - £14.02 and £14.09. OP, I don't see how this issue can simply be ignored in the context.

Their log doesn't get to the nub of this issue because it allocates £0.00 to every failed transaction, not the actual sums entered at the input stage.

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Y H

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Re: Newcastle City Council - Code 73 - PCN because payment machine wasnt working so paid only on way out - Eldon square
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2025, 05:31:53 pm »
I'm also very confused why the declined payments are showing on the receipts for more than £0.00.

Please can you help me work the question to the council I do not know the exact terminology to use.
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cp8759

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Re: Newcastle City Council - Code 73 - PCN because payment machine wasnt working so paid only on way out - Eldon square
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2025, 09:05:04 pm »
Honestly I don't think you need to ask the council anything, you have two paper receipts and their logs, as well as the bank saying they have no record of the transactions. In the circumstances it would be for the council to explain to the tribunal why this isn't their fault. You just need to let us know once you get the notice to owner.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Y H

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Re: Newcastle City Council - Code 73 - PCN because payment machine wasnt working so paid only on way out - Eldon square
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2025, 11:05:54 pm »
What do you mean by notice to owner?

Attached are pictures of the payment machine.
Now that I have gone back, i remember seeing the sign to pay by phone on the machine, but not seeing a pay by phone number to call.
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cp8759

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Re: Newcastle City Council - Code 73 - PCN because payment machine wasnt working so paid only on way out - Eldon square
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2025, 11:14:46 pm »
Quote from: Y H on March 17, 2025, 11:05:54 pm
What do you mean by notice to owner?
If you've received an informal rejection, the next step in the process is for the council to send you a notice to owner, which goes to the registered keeper at the address held by DVLA. You can then make a formal representation (assuming you're the registered keeper) and if that representation is rejected, you can appeal to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Y H

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Re: Newcastle City Council - Code 73 - PCN because payment machine wasnt working so paid only on way out - Eldon square
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2025, 11:26:20 pm »
What chance do you think I have of winning the case?

I only have 4 more days to take advantage of paying the discounted rate of the penalty charge.
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cp8759

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Re: Newcastle City Council - Code 73 - PCN because payment machine wasnt working so paid only on way out - Eldon square
« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2025, 11:28:07 pm »
All litigation carries an element of risk, but you have a very strong case. There is a payment mechanism provided by the authority that simply did not work and the council is trying to penalise you for that, most adjudicators would allow the appeal in those circumstances.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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