Author Topic: City of London, code 52m, Failing to comply w certain vehicle restrictions, Lime street  (Read 516 times)

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Hi all,

I was driving the other day and got lost leading me to accidentally driving onto a street with a sign saying no cars 8am - 6pm. I did not realise this until I got my PCN.

At the time I noticed the sign on the other side of the road (blue sign in the location link below) which indicated to me that it was a one way street (bicycles only could drive the other way) so I didn't think twice about continuing ahead.

With the two signs I am wondering if I can contest it by staying it gave me no choice but to go ahead due to the sign saying I cannot drive in the opposite direction therefore couldn’t turn around.

location:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/zbYKmeDPSdy6Sq3X7
 
PCN photos:
https://imgur.com/a/9MDbq7X
 
Any guidance on the best next steps would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

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We've seen this location before, but on the now-defunct Pepipoo forum, so I can't go back to see those cases. There are quite a number of cases on the Statutory Register of London Tribunals. This one of September 2022 succeeds on the basis of inadequate signage:
2220554800
Quote
The Enforcement Authority adduce 2 map/plans and 4 undated images of the sign positioned just after the mouth of the road and angled toward vehicles approaching from the right. Such sign advises motorists of the restriction which it states commences 40 yards from that point.

The undated images are of limited, if any, evidential value, since the sign is not visible in the contemporaneous footage, and I know not whether such sign was present at the date in question.

No evidence is adduced of any advance notification signage in the road from which vehicles turn, whether right or left, informing of the impediment to that route and visible before such right or left-hand turn manoeuvre is commenced.

There are signs available to give this indication and I can see no good reason why they should not be installed. In the absence of any warning signage I do not consider the signage to in this particular context, adequate.

I note the position of the restrictive sign and indicate my disquiet at its affixation to a building as opposed to being pole-mounted, whereby its symbol and/or legend relates to the area/s behind and beyond the sign itself.

The restrictive sign's position effectively turns the road into a cul-de sac at that point, for such vehicles during the restricted periods, with no alternative route for a vehicle to take, since the indent before the sign is a private entrance; the only, unsatisfactory, option being for restricted vehicles to make a 3 point turn but since a parallel sign bears an 'ahead only' mandatory instruction the motorist is rendered in an invidious situation.

Whilst it is incumbent upon a motorist to consult signage and comply with restrictions, it is incumbent upon an enforcement authority to ensure the signage implementing the terms of a Traffic Management Order is adequate to communicate the nature and extent of the restriction to motorists. I do not find that to be the case in this instance.

The Enforcement Authority cite ETA case numbers; each Appeal is determined upon its individual evidential merit, and one Adjudicator's finding is not binding upon another Adjudicator.

Indeed I have had cause to consider this location on previous occasions and I stand by my former findings.


Evidentially I am not satisfied by the evidence in this Case, accordingly I allow this Appeal.
and another
2230434328
Quote
The Appellant on his way to make a delivery passed the sign without noticing it. His case is that this single wall-mounted sign is insufficiently clear and in any event difficult to avoid once the vehicle has entered Lime St.
The position on the basis of the photographs appears to be that drivers, including drivers of large vehicles can enter this narrow street only to find some distance along it that the way ahead is effectively blocked by the presence of the sign. It seems to me that in order for a restriction to be clearly signed it must be signed in such a way that it gives the driver a reasonable opportunity to take notice of it and comply with its indication. In the present case by the time the sign comes into view a driver has very little opportunity to do much about it, There is no alternative ”escape “route before the sign; and the fact that it is a single sign, the legal minimum, means that this is not one of those case where it might be said that the restriction was clearly visible a long way away giving the driver the opportunity to take avoiding action. This is in my view a very clear case of some sort of advance warning prior to the entry being necessary for clarity (and would no doubt assist the City’s entirely laudable objective to keep Lime Street clear for pedestrians). On the particular facts of this case I am not satisfied the restriction was sufficiently clearly indicated and the Appeal is allowed.


Here is the advance sign, which is clearly totally inadequate for such a draconian restriction, as there is no way a vehicle can turn round and come back.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/36gJ5nCVWktXQqjL8

There are a lot of successful appeals for this location and the odds of a win are very high, due to the total failure of City of London to improve the signage. Clearly they make a lot of money out of it as most people just cough-up when they get the PCN.

Thank you so much for this advice @Incandescent .
I am very unfamiliar with this process so I would be even more grateful if theres any guidance you can give on the next steps. When I send my representation do I need to provide evidence? If so what is usually sufficient - for example should I mention the previous cases you found?

Also, for the representation is it sufficient to say this as a explanation:
"I was at the time lost and unknowingly drove onto a road which has a restriction on certain vehicles due to unclear signage. The advance sign was not clear from the approach onto the road. Once I was on the street I was left with no choice but to proceed due to the sign indicating a one-way road with contraflow for bikes. Without the option to turn around once already being on the street , I had no escape route and no opportunity to rectify the situation given the unclear view/short notice of the sign."

Once again, thanks for the help.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2025, 08:48:20 pm by CKlatica »

I do not see page 1 of the PCN.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

@Hippocrates thanks for bringing that to my attention.

I re-uploaded it here:
https://imgur.com/a/if1qTNm

A small edit is needed

"I was at the time lost and unknowingly drove onto a road which has a restriction on motor vehicles due to totally inadequate signage. The advance sign was not clear from the approach onto the road. Once I was on the street I was left with no choice but to proceed due to the sign indicating a one-way road with contraflow for bikes. Without the option to turn around once already being on the street , I had no escape route and no opportunity to rectify the situation given the unclear view/short notice of the sign."

« Last Edit: January 25, 2025, 10:21:07 pm by Incandescent »

Hi all,
I have received a notice of rejection and I'm unsure how to proceed. Unfortunately I wasn't home for the past few weeks so I have only seen the letter and must respond by tomorrow.
https://imgur.com/a/gwYcZ3j

Any advice on the best next steps is greatly appreciated.

Their letter re-offers the discount, so you can either pay this, or register an appeal at London Tribunals.The letter gives you a verification code to use if you want to do this.

There was a previously successful case at this location, 2220554800. This succeeded on the basis of inadequate signage. Whether any improvements have been made I can't tell you but you could have a look on GSV to see if they have a later view than 2022.

Paying closes the matter, needless to say, and you join the Mugged Club ! It all depends on how annoyed you are to risk the extra cost of going to London Tribunals.

Hi all,
I have received a notice of rejection and I'm unsure how to proceed. Unfortunately I wasn't home for the past few weeks so I have only seen the letter and must respond by tomorrow.
https://imgur.com/a/gwYcZ3j

Any advice on the best next steps is greatly appreciated.

Tomorrow is the deadline.

Main issue re the PCN: They state they can serve a charge certificate 28 days from the date of the notice. This is wrong as it truncates the period.

The law states at Schedule 1 5:

1)Where a penalty charge notice is served on any person and the penalty charge
to which it relates is not paid before the end of the relevant period, the
enforcing authority may serve on that person a statement (in this paragraph
referred to as a “charge certificate”) to the effect that the penalty charge in
question is increased by 50 per cent.

(2)The relevant period, in relation to a penalty charge notice is the period of 28
days beginning—

(a)where no representations are made under paragraph 1 above, with the date
on which the penalty charge notice is serv
ed;


I am happy to represent you on this if you wish to appeal because the PCN is invalid.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2025, 10:27:34 am by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r