Author Topic: Motorcycle in bus lane, confusing sign  (Read 973 times)

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cp8759

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Re: Motorcycle in bus lane, confusing sign
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2024, 12:12:11 am »
Senior members will confirm if this is still a valid argument in May 2024 or not.
While councils have made some attempts to get their house in order, we still regularly use these same grounds to this day. We haven't lost a single London council bus lane PCN case since we won your case against Ealing in October 2022; how time flies!

@Peter222 please follow the guidance from Hippocrates, he's a bus lane veteran.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Hippocrates

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Re: Motorcycle in bus lane, confusing sign
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2024, 02:17:44 pm »
2240270679: in complete agreement for future reference.
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

Hippocrates

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Re: Motorcycle in bus lane, confusing sign
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2024, 03:32:07 pm »
To: Hammersmith and Fulham Council

Re PCN:

I make these formal representations  against the Enforcement Notice on the following grounds

1.  I am in possession of the special DFT authorisation for this offside bus lane and it is clear that you have departed from the agreed plan of the layout of the signage, in particular the 958 sign.

2.  Notwithstanding that there is the said authorisation, I refer you to this extract from a High Court decision:
R(Oxfordshire County Council) v The Bus Lane Adjudicator [2010]EWHC 894 (Admin) Mr Justice Beatson confirmed at para. 65:
Para 65.  The Defendant's submission that the fact that signs are prescribed or authorised does not mean they are sufficient for securing adequate information as to the effect of an order is made available to road users is clearly correct. If the signs do not in fact provide adequate information no offence is committed;
I argue, therefore, that your departure from the DFT authorised plan by placing the 958 sign AFTER the taper line substantially exacerbates your problem concerning enforcement. In any event, most of the signage in place directly contravenes the Traffic Signs Manual Chapter Three in terms of their very meaning. Furthermore, there is a plethora of signage and, indeed, placed in positions which again contradict the said TSM. I rely upon case no: 2240270679 in this regard. I also say that you have added extra signage which is non-compliant with TSRGD 2016.

3. I put you to strict proof that the camera at the said location has the correct VCA approval.

4. The Enforcement  Notice limits to one ground of representations.

5.  Service and delivery are two entirely different concepts and “delivery” is not mentioned in the Act. The Enforcement Notice substantially departs from the statutory scheme in terms of 4 and 5.

In light of the above, I request that you cancel the PCN and EN forthwith.

Signed

*******************

Yesterday's outcome:

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/hammersmith-and-fulham-being-in-a-bus-lane-shepherds-bush-rd-southbound-offside-/msg34058/#msg34058
« Last Edit: August 21, 2024, 08:35:41 pm by Hippocrates »
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

Hippocrates

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Re: Motorcycle in bus lane, confusing sign
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2024, 01:02:11 pm »
2240270679: in complete agreement for future reference.
Reviewed and refused unfortunately.  However, appeal for this case just registered.
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

Hippocrates

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Re: Motorcycle in bus lane, confusing sign
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2024, 09:44:56 pm »
Please be advised that it would be up to the adjudicator to decide whether they would want the council to attend the hearing.
:-X
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

Hippocrates

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Re: Motorcycle in bus lane, confusing sign
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2024, 10:53:17 am »
Job done. 2240418124. Good to meet you, sir. 8)
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

Peter222

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Re: Motorcycle in bus lane, confusing sign
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2024, 03:48:40 pm »
Thanks entirely to the expertise, knowledge and generosity of Hippocrates, my appeal was allowed. He knew the law better than the adjudicator, who had to look it up!

Lovely to meet you too.

Thanks again Hippocrates, my hero of the moment!
Peter

Decision attached

Hippocrates

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Re: Motorcycle in bus lane, confusing sign
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2024, 08:50:44 pm »
Thanks entirely to the expertise, knowledge and generosity of Hippocrates, my appeal was allowed. He knew the law better than the adjudicator, who had to look it up!
 

That's why I wasn't mentioned!  :)  :'(

See you in Kos mate. There is a spare room going in June. Serious.

As for the DFT authorisation: I am playing the right notes but not necessarily in the right order! He got the point.  Mucking about with 959B signs and/or 958 signs and their meaning and positions. Quite ridiculous. This authorisation is a complete travesty of what TSM Chapter Three states.

The Appellant then sent another email to the same effect on 25 October 2024. This was clearly not
within the prescribed time period to which the Enforcement Authority were entitled and thus of itself
could not be relied upon


Really?  25, 28, 29. In any event, the requirement to attend was combined with the submissions which were filed on 19th October from Kos.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2024, 09:12:22 pm by Hippocrates »
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899