Author Topic: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles. (Read 643 times)

jimzzr · « **on:** October 28, 2025, 01:39:14 pm »

Hi,

I would like your opinions on the possibility of defending a parking ticket issued by Medway council.

The situation is I was given a ticket parked on a SYL near the north end of Canterbury st at around 9.30 pm. The section of SYL had no time plate and so I assumed it was 6 or 6.30 pm like the rest of medway. Street view link of location below along with links to the PCN

https://maps.app.goo.gl/sF4jwF5UpCsfJotA7

The pcn is here https://imgpile.com/p/PzL2APv#jVCPtTl

I think the issue is that I had unknowing entered a CPZ.

Looking at google maps turning right from Waterloo Road (or left from Vicarage Rd) into Canterbury St there are two zone end signs. I therefore have come to the conclusion that Canterbury St. south of the Junction with Stafford St. is not in a controlled zone.

After some close up interrogation of google maps for the junction with Stafford Rd I think there may be rotated start of cpz signs for Canterbury st (on right and left) but its pretty much impossible to read either of them driving north on Canterbury St as they are not facing the traffic. The one on the LHS is completely impossible to see unless standing in Stafford St. The one on the right is not quite fully rotated but still impossible to read while driving, particularly as it was dark and the sign unlit. From google maps it appears they have been like this for five years.

I’ve been back and taken my own photographs, but the google maps gives an accurate impression of how they currently are.

Junction waterloo road with Canterbury st https://maps.app.goo.gl/aNdtwMWeouax2oCX7
Signs at junction with Stafford St. https://maps.app.goo.gl/jsiFx1vnMJf7q99J8

My Photos here https://imgpile.com/p/VlmyDPw

Many thanks for your assistance.

Jim

stamfordman · « **Reply #1 on:** October 28, 2025, 03:09:40 pm »

If the entry signage is defective on your route into the zone you should win this.
How did you turn into Stafford Street?

I looked on Maps and some parking bays end much earlier which could give a false sense if security but yellow lines are controlled only by their own timeplates or CPZ entry signs.

jimzzr · « **Reply #2 on:** October 28, 2025, 04:03:23 pm »

Quote from: stamfordman on October 28, 2025, 03:09:40 pm

If the entry signage is defective on your route into the zone you should win this.
How did you turn into Stafford Street?

I looked on Maps and some parking bays end much earlier which could give a false sense if security but yellow lines are controlled only by their own timeplates or CPZ entry signs.

Sorry didn't make myself clear. I was parked on canterbury st. I didn't turn into stafford street I carried on past it. It's very confusing as someone has turned the cpz signs for the north end of canterbury street through 90 degrees, so you can't see them as you drive past. I came down canterbury st, heading north, so passing stafford st on my left, to park further up on the right (I turned around and doubled back to park hence car is pointing south rather than north).

If you look very closely and zoom in you can just about see one entry sign at an angle on canterbury street opposite the stafford st junction. You can't see the other unless stood actually in stafford street.

Hope that makes sense now.

edit It not so clear on maps as my photos as the sign is even further rotated, but looking at maps I believe the start sign on the right is between the green house and blue garage - on maps it looks like an end of zone sign, but it actually has a start of cpz on it's reverse (it's more visible on my photos as not quite as rotated round).

Thanks

Jim

stamfordman · « **Reply #3 on:** October 28, 2025, 04:45:24 pm »

OK, so you were in zone E?

Look at the map and recall your entry to zone E and then check signs at the entry.

jimzzr · « **Reply #4 on:** October 28, 2025, 06:03:14 pm »

Quote from: stamfordman on October 28, 2025, 04:45:24 pm

OK, so you were in zone E?

Look at the map and recall your entry to zone E and then check signs at the entry.

Yes I was in zone E. At the very bottom of the map to the LHS you can see vicarage road marked. So I drove in with that on my left. If the blue lines are the boundaries they don't really correspond very well to the signage. The first signs are at Stafford St which is the next road up on LHS.

google maps heading North on canterbury st with vicarage road on left

https://maps.app.goo.gl/dL3x8VvJK5k8qts9A

I don't really understand that map do the zones merge but then if you were to exit vicarage road and turn into canterbury st you have end of zone signs but no start of zone.

jimzzr · « **Reply #5 on:** October 28, 2025, 06:24:13 pm »

Quote from: jimzzr on October 28, 2025, 06:03:14 pm

Quote from: stamfordman on October 28, 2025, 04:45:24 pm
OK, so you were in zone E?

Look at the map and recall your entry to zone E and then check signs at the entry.

Yes I was in zone E. At the very bottom of the map to the LHS you can see vicarage road marked. So I drove in with that on my left. If the blue lines are the boundaries they don't really correspond very well to the signage. The first signs are at Stafford St which is the next road up on LHS.

google maps heading North on canterbury st with vicarage road on left

https://maps.app.goo.gl/dL3x8VvJK5k8qts9A

I don't really understand that map do the zones merge but then if you were to exit vicarage road and turn into canterbury st you have end of zone signs but no start of zone.

I think this is the zone E entry sign as I said earlier, opposite the stafford rd junction between green house and blue garage

https://imgpile.com/p/Ly0bkG4

(For some reason it won't let me embed the imgpile links as images)

Incandescent · « **Reply #6 on:** October 28, 2025, 07:11:56 pm »

Please give us a GSV link to that sign.

jimzzr · « **Reply #7 on:** October 28, 2025, 07:33:51 pm »

Quote from: Incandescent on October 28, 2025, 07:11:56 pm

Please give us a GSV link to that sign.

I had given it earlier but as I said the sign is even more rotated on GSV. Between green house and blue garage RHS canterbury st. It looks like a zone end sign on GSV as you can't see the back of it.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/B8AyWuMyxCR1nnao8

The GSV image from May 23 is closest to how the sign is now

https://maps.app.goo.gl/fMKYFttfXMWBYaSi9

This is the other zone E sign but it is only visible exiting stafford street - can't be seen driving north on canterbury st

https://maps.app.goo.gl/hQamnwomwkBJf2DAA

Incandescent · « **Reply #8 on:** October 28, 2025, 10:36:42 pm »

OK, so badly maintained signage.
The council are under a duty to maintain signs reflecting traffic orders they have introduced in Regulation 18 (1) (b) in The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/regulation/18

So in your case the contravention did not occur as the sign is not properly visble to approaching motorists.

jimzzr · « **Reply #9 on:** October 28, 2025, 11:02:30 pm »

Quote from: Incandescent on October 28, 2025, 10:36:42 pm

OK, so badly maintained signage.
The council are under a duty to maintain signs reflecting traffic orders they have introduced in Regulation 18 (1) (b) in The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/regulation/18

So in your case the contravention did not occur as the sign is not properly visible to approaching motorists.

From my understanding the signage is defective so the cpz is invalid.

How does this nullify the original SYL offence?

Does the traffic order that makes the cpz effectively also make the SLY so in effect it's completely unenforceable.

Or is it defaulted back to no cpz and therefore should have a yellow time plate. Does each SYL section need a yellow plate if not in a cpz ? - I can see on GSV there is a SYL with a yellow plate further north, could they argue I should have used the times on that one.

Many Thanks for your help.

Jim

stamfordman · « **Reply #10 on:** October 29, 2025, 09:35:59 am »

So have you got your own pics of that zone entry - across the whole road.

If there is just one sign not fully facing traffic on the right this isn't adequate but Medway is an obdurate council and you'd probably have to see this through to the tribunal.

jimzzr · « **Reply #11 on:** October 29, 2025, 10:16:35 am »

Quote from: stamfordman on October 29, 2025, 09:35:59 am

So have you got your own pics of that zone entry - across the whole road.

If there is just one sign not fully facing traffic on the right this isn't adequate but Medway is an obdurate council and you'd probably have to see this through to the tribunal.

Yes pictures 6 and 7 of mypicts link are mine

https://imgpile.com/p/VlmyDPw

Picture 6 shows the view the driver has approaching the signs along canterbury st. Only the RH sign is visible at all, the left hand sign looks like just a pole.

Picture 7 shows a view at right angles standing in stafford st - here the LH entry sign is visible. The rear of the RH sign is also visible, that should be facing the traffic exiting the zone.

Are these adequate or do I need more (I have a couple of others but are pretty much the same as the ones posted.

Clearly Medway don't give a toss about signage as you can see from GSV that they've been like this for over 5 years.

stamfordman · « **Reply #12 on:** October 29, 2025, 11:00:16 am »

So this is the entry - well worth taking this on.

jimzzr · « **Reply #13 on:** October 29, 2025, 11:24:54 am »

Quote from: stamfordman on October 29, 2025, 11:00:16 am

So this is the entry - well worth taking this on.

I believe so.

stamfordman · « **Reply #14 on:** October 29, 2025, 01:43:54 pm »

Draft a short challenge and post here first.

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Author Topic: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles. (Read 643 times)

jimzzr

Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.

stamfordman

Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.

jimzzr

Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.

stamfordman

Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.

jimzzr

Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.

jimzzr

Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.

Incandescent

Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.

jimzzr

Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.

Incandescent

Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.

jimzzr

Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.

stamfordman

Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.

jimzzr

Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.

stamfordman

Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.

jimzzr

Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.

stamfordman

Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.