Author Topic: Medway Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours  (Read 779 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Incandescent

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3793
  • Karma: +83/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Crewe
    • View Profile
Re: Medway Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2024, 11:04:58 pm »
For Batchelor Street, even if only one sign remains, passing it puts you in the zone, and there is a No Stopping symbol on it.  HOwever, is the sign compliant with the regulations as suggested by HCA ? 

Really we need to see current state of entrance signage to the High Street.

From GSV 2022. there is no access via Glover Street, nor Meeting House Lane, as there are No Entry signs.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/GJTe22cX2nJMX3Ze9
and
https://maps.app.goo.gl/gbBNQbmqPK9bSQ6b7
nor from Waterfront Bay, where the street is blocked by bollzrds, and is clearly a pedestrian throughfare
https://maps.app.goo.gl/E5CsRk6JzQsFoUS1A

Rhode Street has the same sign as Batchelor St
https://maps.app.goo.gl/571o6pxWfxdvAt2Y6

The sign does seem very peculiar, as it bars motor traffic 10am to 5 pm, But there is also a 24x7 No Stopping restriction which seems totally barmy.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2024, 11:06:31 pm by Incandescent »

Incandescent

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3793
  • Karma: +83/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Crewe
    • View Profile
Re: Medway Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2024, 11:09:41 pm »
Quote
I took some pictures yesterday evening and checked all the lamp post around where I parked on the high street. I cannot find any signs.
You shouldn't find any signs because the entry signs govern the zone, and none are needed once the zone sign is passed. It does, however, look a complete Dog's Breakfast, and maybe a complaint to the council or to your local councillor would be another approach. All the council parking enforcement office want is your money, basically.

They could put up repeater signs, but they are not obligatory.

H C Andersen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2536
  • Karma: +55/-33
    • View Profile
Re: Medway Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2024, 08:41:30 am »
We need the photos, I'm afraid that no amount of narrative would substitute. Hopefully you'll be able to post here for all to see.

JOJO1209

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 41
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Medway Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2024, 12:27:59 pm »
We need the photos, I'm afraid that no amount of narrative would substitute. Hopefully you'll be able to post here for all to see.

Mr. Andersen, I have PM you.

H C Andersen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2536
  • Karma: +55/-33
    • View Profile
Re: Medway Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2024, 05:55:48 pm »
Matters should be peer reviewed please, in this way you get the broadest range of views.

FYI, I'll possibly have intermittent internet for the next 2 weeks as I'm abroad, so posting here is preferable pl.

JOJO1209

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 41
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Medway Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2024, 01:36:20 am »

Very sorry of the late posting. I am still struggling to upload the pictures unto imgibb.com.

Below is the link to the pictures that I took from Batchelor Street ( point of entry) to the end  of the High Street (Exit).

https://ibb.co/album/68P1rY

There is a sign on right as you enter Batchelor Street as per photo There is only one sign on the right there is no sign on the left as suggested on the google map. I have never noticed this sign until I went back to take the pictures.
There are not markings on the ground or signage on any lamp post or poles on the High Street from Batchelor Street until you are exiting the High Street onto The Brook where there are some signage ( see picture).  I checked all the lamp posts and poles as suggested on the high street between the junction of Batchelor Street to the end. There is a single “one way sign” close to where I parked. I parked in front of Wendy’s kitchen ( as per Picture). There are signs on the end of the high street with the Brook as you exit the High Street but I wouldn’t have seen them from the direction I was driving from until exiting.
Please let me know if you need any more information or more pictures.
Thanks in advance for your expertise, advice and time.

JOJO1209

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 41
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Medway Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2024, 01:43:40 am »
Matters should be peer reviewed please, in this way you get the broadest range of views.

FYI, I'll possibly have intermittent internet for the next 2 weeks as I'm abroad, so posting here is preferable pl.

Hi

Sorry for the late reply.

No Problem I can understand.
 
I struggled to upload the pictures unto imgibb.com. I could only upload one picture at a time due to my limited knowledge of using this website ( newbie). I am sure there will be a way of uploading multiple pictures at the same time.

See link below.

https://ibb.co/album/68P1rY


I have also posted link with explanation in a separate reply.


Many thanks

JOJO1209

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 41
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Medway Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2024, 02:03:57 am »
Quote
I took some pictures yesterday evening and checked all the lamp post around where I parked on the high street. I cannot find any signs.
You shouldn't find any signs because the entry signs govern the zone, and none are needed once the zone sign is passed. It does, however, look a complete Dog's Breakfast, and maybe a complaint to the council or to your local councillor would be another approach. All the council parking enforcement office want is your money, basically.

They could put up repeater signs, but they are not obligatory.


You are absolutely right. All the council parking enforcement and the parking wardens want are motorists / drivers money.
Please can you provide be with a bit more of context and details as to what I should include in the complaint if I decide to go down this route in the event the PCN was issued correct ?
Who in the council will this complaint be addressed to?
Thanks

JOJO1209

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 41
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Medway Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2024, 12:44:56 am »
I'd be grateful for any help and or advice from the experts especially @H C Andersen



The Council said on Friday that if I send in my appeal they will re-instate the discount until a decision is made. I believe they were expecting it on Friday or shortly after.



If the possibility of a successful challenge is non-existence or slim, I don't want to loose the opportunity to pay the discounted amount.



I will greatly appreciate any help and or advice on this PCN.


Thanks

John U.K.

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1435
  • Karma: +25/-2
    • View Profile
Re: Medway Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2024, 03:29:43 am »
As per my PM.

As I see it you can either
a) Pay if the Council website still says £35 (do not pay if it's now £70)
OR
b) Make a short challenge that yoou're very sorry  but the single unlit sign you passed in Batchelor Street was inadequate, lost in the surrounding street clutter of bright illuminated signs (see below)  and not up to the standard of LATOR.
As I said in my earlier PM, Medway will probably re-offer the discount. If they don't, you have bought time to make a more detailed rep against the Notice to Owner.


stamfordman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1835
  • Karma: +39/-2
    • View Profile
Re: Medway Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2024, 10:00:11 am »
These signs are correct in that they prohibit motor traffic at certain times but also create a 24/7 waiting retriction that is subject to the usual exemptions you can avail yourself of outside the moving traffic prohibition (loading, boarding, disabled). Note it does not create a no loading zone so the correct contravention is 01.

We have another case (in Worthing) where the council has wrongly omitted the no waiting part of the zone entrance sign.

« Last Edit: December 10, 2024, 10:03:18 am by stamfordman »

H C Andersen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2536
  • Karma: +55/-33
    • View Profile
Re: Medway Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2024, 10:27:34 am »

So far you and we don't know the council's rationale in placing this sign.

A Ped and Cycle Zone sign is a 'moving traffic' sign which regulates entry into an area. However, these signs have another function i.e. they may convey waiting and loading restrictions within the zone AND the council may then dispense with yellow lines(for waiting) and yellow kerb markings(for loading) which would otherwise be required. They have dispensed with lines in your case.

There aren't any loading restrictions within the bay, confirmed by the sign and the PCN, therefore you can advance a defence based on loading. In addition, although your photo is blurred it seems as if the yellow lower panel has a circle with a blue background and crossed red lines. This conveys a NO STOPPING  restriction, not no waiting - despite the wording. In this case the sign is not permitted to convey a no waiting restriction.

OP,
1. Pl confirm whether the blue circle has crossed lines or simply a single line - see items 1 and 2 in the Part 3 table here;
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/4/made

2. Put together the best argument you can regarding loading.

stamfordman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1835
  • Karma: +39/-2
    • View Profile
Re: Medway Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2024, 10:47:50 am »
Yes Mr Anderson is right - the bottom yellow sign must have a single red diagonal to signify no waiting rather than no stopping. If they have used a double red then I don't think they can enforce the contravention and it is surely not their intention to create a no stopping zone at all times.

H C Andersen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2536
  • Karma: +55/-33
    • View Profile
Re: Medway Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2024, 04:55:46 pm »
OP, hopefully you're on the ball with what's needed here: a clear photo of the sign.

The argument works in reverse IMO:

They allege you were parked in a restricted street;
It is unarguable that there weren't any yellow lines present;
Therefore the authority must establish a legal basis for dispensing with the lines;
The only argument is that they had placed a Ped and Cycle zone sign;
HOWEVER, this sign does not exempt them from placing yellow lines: they must also erect the prescribed associated plate;
They haven't (if it contains a No Stopping symbol). 

cp8759

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5701
  • Karma: +128/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Medway Code 01 - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2024, 09:18:25 pm »
Well realistically the signs must be wrong: the yellow plate that says "at any time" has a no-stopping symbol rather than a no waiting one, which can't be right as that would prevent any of the shops from ever getting any deliveries.

@JOJO1209 the discount has expired so at this point you have nothing to lose, you might as well wait for the Notice to Owner, in the meantime I'll get hold of the traffic order. Incidentally to get automatic notifications of replies on a thread, you need to click the "notify" icon at the bottom of the page.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order