Author Topic: Medway - 51J - No Entry Restriction  (Read 205 times)

0 Members and 16 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Medway - 51J - No Entry Restriction
« Reply #15 on: »
2 is wrong - the restriction was in force; the argument there is that the signage is inadequate / misleading

Re: Medway - 51J - No Entry Restriction
« Reply #16 on: »
2 is wrong - the restriction was in force; the argument there is that the signage is inadequate / misleading

The wording is confusing and I think the order is wrong.

It says:

No vehicles
Except for access
on Saturdays
10 am - 4 pm

I think it's supposed to say:

No vehicles
10 am - 4 pm
Except for access
on Saturdays

But who knows. It would be odd if there was no access for deliveries except on the busiest shopping time but why then allow access then. 

Re: Medway - 51J - No Entry Restriction
« Reply #17 on: »
Eats, shoots, and leaves!  ;D

There is a proposed new TRO to extend the restrictions on the high street to Sundays and BHs: 
Medway Council download - Traffic Regulation Orders | Parking, roads, travel | Roads and pavements
medway.gov.uk


The idea (I think) is normally access to that section of road is from the other end, but 10-4 Saturdays that is pedestrian only, so they have allowed access from this end on Saturday 10-4.

This looks like one of those cases where (as Gov agencies like to do) they have tried to dumb down things, but ended up making it so complicated in double speak that it's actually harder to understand.



I think it's supposed to say:

No vehicles
10 am - 4 pm
Except for access
on Saturdays

Based on the above that's not right either, better might have been:

No Vehicles except for:
Access only on Saturdays 10am - 4pm

If they implement the new TRO, it will be even more complicated and confusing!!

Re: Medway - 51J - No Entry Restriction
« Reply #18 on: »
But why would they want traffic there only at the busiest shopping time.

Make it make sense.

Re: Medway - 51J - No Entry Restriction
« Reply #19 on: »
2 is wrong - the restriction was in force; the argument there is that the signage is inadequate / misleading

I agree that's likely what it will become but right now from our perspective, we entered outside the enforcement period (and wouldn't appealing initially on this basis adds strength to the argument that it's misleading?)

Re: Medway - 51J - No Entry Restriction
« Reply #20 on: »
But why would they want traffic there only at the busiest shopping time.

Make it make sense.

It's a council thing, that's not possible  8)

As far as I can see it is only to access to the first 30m or so of the road till you get to the pedestrianised (Sat 10-4 only) section, to give access to premises.

Re: Medway - 51J - No Entry Restriction
« Reply #21 on: »
2 is wrong - the restriction was in force; the argument there is that the signage is inadequate / misleading

I agree that's likely what it will become but right now from our perspective, we entered outside the enforcement period (and wouldn't appealing initially on this basis adds strength to the argument that it's misleading?)

Ah, yes, that's seems a reasonable plan, but no doubt they will just reject it out of hand and say it was in force - you could maybe expand that you were informed access was OK at the time of the alleged contravention, and read the sign that way, but subsequent research has suggested that in fact the reverse is true, and the signs do not convey this in the short time available to read them as a motorist driving - also as far as I can see in GSV (Oct 24) there is no advanced warning, nor any signage at the junction that there is no access; and the signs are pretty well hidden behind the lights as you approach (and have to cross the bus lane)

Spot the restriction sign!

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps. · maps.app.goo.gl

Re: Medway - 51J - No Entry Restriction
« Reply #22 on: »
Just before I post the appeal... is this likely to win if they push as far as the adjudicator? It's been a while since I've been involved in this kind of thing but as I recall putting the wrong contravention is likely to kill it anyway?

Re: Medway - 51J - No Entry Restriction
« Reply #23 on: »
As far as I can see it is only to access to the first 30m or so of the road till you get to the pedestrianised (Sat 10-4 only) section, to give access to premises.

Ah yes so there's another restriction a bit further in. That one does ban vehicles on Saturday 10-4.

Best to leave this out as you say and just stick with the wrong contravention.

Re: Medway - 51J - No Entry Restriction
« Reply #24 on: »
IMO, the alleged contravention could not and did not occur because it isn't the prohibition indicated by the signs.

The fact that in practice PZ, No Entry, All vehicles prohibited except non-mechanically propelled vehicles pushed by pedestrians(the regulatory meaning of the signs actually in place here) etc. can have similar effects, namely that at certain times vehicles should not pass them, does not mean they are the same for legislative and enforcement purposes. They are distinguished in the regs and separate contravention descriptions exist for them.

There aren't any No Entry signs therefore the contravention did not occur.

For good measure from the Statutory Guidance: Authorities should not issue PCNs when traffic signs or road markings are incorrect,
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 08:44:03 pm by tincombe »