3. Manchester City Council - Alleged Bus Lane Contravention PCN, Manchester Deansgate Bus Gate PCN received
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Author Topic: Manchester City Council - Alleged Bus Lane Contravention PCN, Manchester Deansgate Bus Gate PCN received  (Read 1618 times)

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Re: Manchester City Council - Alleged Bus Lane Contravention PCN, Manchester Deansgate Bus Gate PCN received
« Reply #15 on: »
Hi All,

Any feedback on how I should proceed?

Thanks
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Re: Manchester City Council - Alleged Bus Lane Contravention PCN, Manchester Deansgate Bus Gate PCN received
« Reply #16 on: »
Here is my suggestion (you'll have to remove the spaces from the youtube URL, I had to add them as otherwise the forum video integration was hiding the text):

Dear Manchester City Council,

I challenge liability for PCN MC15861930 on the basis that the alleged contravention did not occur. When I approached the bus gate I saw the signs and attempted to reverse out, however the driver behind my was blocking my path so I was effectively trapped. The council has placed a traffic island at this location such that it is not possible to take an alternative route if drivers in close proximity to one's rear refuse to reverse.

As an illustration of this scenario, I refer you to the video at https://www. youtube .com/watch?v=4KxRKgIx0hE which shows two drivers executing exactly such a manoeuvre, but as that video shows this is contingent on the driver at the rear being willing to reverse.

I could not ram my way out nor could I reasonably be expected to get out of the vehicle to start remontrating with the driver of the car behind mine, as that could easily escalate into a road rage incident.

In the circumstances, I was forced to proceed by circumstances beyond my control and for that reason, the alleged contravention did not occur.

Yours faithfully,



However before you send that, can you please confirm what else you've sent to the council? This appears on the case history:

« Last Edit: July 24, 2023, 07:09:32 pm by cp8759 »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Manchester City Council - Alleged Bus Lane Contravention PCN, Manchester Deansgate Bus Gate PCN received
« Reply #17 on: »
Thanks, really appreciate it. The two communications you can see from me is my initial request to ask for the extended video preceding what they have made available on the pcn and then a follow up to ask for a status of the request. They have not replied to either request. Am I OK to submit my challenge per your advice?
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Re: Manchester City Council - Alleged Bus Lane Contravention PCN, Manchester Deansgate Bus Gate PCN received
« Reply #18 on: »
The first response from me was replying indicating my intention to appeal.  The 2nd was when they provided me a link to the viewmypcn site but only showing the footage which you saw. To which I replied stating that I need 3 minutes of video footage preceding what they have made available. The 3rd message from me was to request a status update on the 2nd request. Not sure they will reply and provide this footage that I have requested which will show them the difference my situation and the situation I posted over the weekend where the two drivers successfully reversed back to avoid entering the bus gate.
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Re: Manchester City Council - Alleged Bus Lane Contravention PCN, Manchester Deansgate Bus Gate PCN received
« Reply #19 on: »
OK I just wanted to check you hadn't made a representation already. In the circumstances, please send what I have drafted, and please make sure to amend the youtube link so that they can click on it.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Manchester City Council - Alleged Bus Lane Contravention PCN, Manchester Deansgate Bus Gate PCN received
« Reply #20 on: »
Removed the spaces from the youtube url and launched in youtube and it is showing as video is processing. Any idea?
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Re: Manchester City Council - Alleged Bus Lane Contravention PCN, Manchester Deansgate Bus Gate PCN received
« Reply #21 on: »
Try now please.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Manchester City Council - Alleged Bus Lane Contravention PCN, Manchester Deansgate Bus Gate PCN received
« Reply #22 on: »
Looks like it's working now. Many thanks again. Really appreciate it
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Re: Manchester City Council - Alleged Bus Lane Contravention PCN, Manchester Deansgate Bus Gate PCN received
« Reply #23 on: »
I submitted my representation early this morning. Any ideas how quickly do they reply with a decision?
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Re: Manchester City Council - Alleged Bus Lane Contravention PCN, Manchester Deansgate Bus Gate PCN received
« Reply #24 on: »
They have 56 days to respond.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Manchester City Council - Alleged Bus Lane Contravention PCN, Manchester Deansgate Bus Gate PCN received
« Reply #25 on: »
Hi All,

So Manchester City Council have responded to my appeal/representation and have rejected my appeal. I have uploaded all sides of the rejection here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/198760434@N04/with/53064145104/

I would be grateful if I get some steer on the odds of success going to a tribunal / independent adjudicator based on what I have submitted so far.

Your help would be greatly appreciated once again. Many Thanks
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Re: Manchester City Council - Alleged Bus Lane Contravention PCN, Manchester Deansgate Bus Gate PCN received
« Reply #26 on: »
Personally I would carry on, as you obviously had no choice in how to proceed.

I also have a possible argument about the camera approval, but I'm still investigating its viability.

I can't give you any guarantees, but I do think you have better than even odds if you want to carry on. If you chose to do so, I'm happy to represent you at the tribunal.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Manchester City Council - Alleged Bus Lane Contravention PCN, Manchester Deansgate Bus Gate PCN received
« Reply #27 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on August 14, 2023, 04:31:35 pm
Personally I would carry on, as you obviously had no choice in how to proceed.

I also have a possible argument about the camera approval, but I'm still investigating its viability.

I can't give you any guarantees, but I do think you have better than even odds if you want to carry on. If you chose to do so, I'm happy to represent you at the tribunal.
Thanks for this. Please do let us know about the approval and the validity of the camera and whether there's any wrongdoing on behalf of the council.
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Re: Manchester City Council - Alleged Bus Lane Contravention PCN, Manchester Deansgate Bus Gate PCN received
« Reply #28 on: »
Quote from: justice4driversnow10 on August 16, 2023, 08:55:14 am
Thanks for this. Please do let us know about the approval and the validity of the camera and whether there's any wrongdoing on behalf of the council.
The council has not responded to my information request, and I can't refer this to the Information Commissioner's Office until 7 September, the discount expires on 28 August so realistically you'll have to make a decision based on the information available at the moment.

I think the majority of adjudicators at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal would allow an appeal based on circumstances beyond your control.
Logged
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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  3. Manchester City Council - Alleged Bus Lane Contravention PCN, Manchester Deansgate Bus Gate PCN received