3. Southwark Council - Horselydown Lane
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Southwark Council - Horselydown Lane
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Hi there,

I have just received a ticket for an alleged contravention on Horselydown Lane.  The alleged contravention is for 21:19 and for parking on a single yellow line.  If there is any other information needed please let me know, I would like to appeal this allegation.

Thanks in advance


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Re: Southwark Council - Horselydown Lane
« Reply #1 on: »
Give us the PCN number and the number plate please. Also please tell us exactly what route you took to get onto Horselydown Lane, either from Tower Bridge Road or from the A200.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Southwark Council - Horselydown Lane
« Reply #2 on: »
the pcn number is: JK10593711, reg plate: VE70VWD.  We came from the A200 end.

Thank you
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Re: Southwark Council - Horselydown Lane
« Reply #3 on: »
So here is the entrance to Horseleydown Lane from the direction you entered: -
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5027646,-0.0767925,3a,75y,8h,87.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sM5OGwKqyXiSVrppSVCrGzw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0&entry=ttu
Presumably you failed to notice the CPZ sign. The hours on it are the single-yellow line restricted times. However, you've blanked-out the contravention time on the PCN, so we cannot compare it to the CPZ times. So why did you do this ?
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Re: Southwark Council - Horselydown Lane
« Reply #4 on: »
apologies, it was a mistake..the time is 21:19
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Re: Southwark Council - Horselydown Lane
« Reply #5 on: »
Well we know the back of the sign is there:



Did you find the PCN on your car and if so, did you challenge it?

Did you simply assume that it was late and parking was allowed?

The only real angle is if you could go check the front of the sign to confirm the restricted hours are still the same and are clearly visible. On the other hand the PCN is at the full rate so there's no point in paying now, we might as well challenge with something.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Southwark Council - Horselydown Lane
« Reply #6 on: »
Hi, there was no pcn on the car..it was just the letter that I received so there has been no challenge.  It was a single yellow line and a few hours past 6, so I assumed it would be fine.

I live a fair distance from the location, would it be ok if I try finding the sinage on google maps?

But agree, please could I get assistance with the appeal?

Thank you in advance
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Re: Southwark Council - Horselydown Lane
« Reply #7 on: »
Although photos are not a legal requirement, most councils get their CEOs to take them to back up the evidence in the CEO's notes. So you should look in their website quoting the PCN Number to see if there are any. I would expect to see a photo of the yellow envelope containing the PCN on the car windscreen.

By not finding the PCN on the car, you have, essentially, been denied the opportunity to pay the discounted amount, so any reps you send in should mention this. CP8759 may come up with something else. If their response reinstates the discount you have a decision to take; pay-up at the discount, or risk the full PC penalty at the adjudicators.

BTW, the restriction used to end at 6.30 pm. See GSV view of November 2020
https://maps.app.goo.gl/58tiDaUSsja29fZ69
Did you used to park there then, and just assumed the times were the same today ?
« Last Edit: September 26, 2023, 11:56:45 pm by cp8759 »
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Re: Southwark Council - Horselydown Lane
« Reply #8 on: »
Yes you're correct..there are photos of the car with yellow envelope.  Although this wasn't the case when getting back to the car.

I have never parked there before, but because it was late evening, single yellow line and other cars were parked there I had assumed it would be fine.

What should I be doing to launch an appeal?
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Re: Southwark Council - Horselydown Lane
« Reply #9 on: »
Have you posted all of the NtO, because I don't see the statutory grounds for an appeal on there ?  Getting this wrong has won quite a few cases recently
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Re: Southwark Council - Horselydown Lane
« Reply #10 on: »
If the PCN was on the car, it doesn't matter whether you found it or not (otherwise everyone could just claim they never found the PCN on the car). The only exception would be if the CEO himself removed it after taking the photos, but you'd need concrete proof like video footage (and we have no reason to suspect the CEO of removing the PCN).

I suggest you post the remaining pages of the NTO so that we can have a look. One thing is obvious: you might as well challenge the notice because at this point as long as no deadlines are missed the penalty amount can only go down, it cannot go up, so there would be no point in paying now.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Southwark Council - Horselydown Lane
« Reply #11 on: »
Here is the rest of the NTO, thanks


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Re: Southwark Council - Horselydown Lane
« Reply #12 on: »
I can't see any obvious grounds, I can only suggest that you write to the council explaining that you didn't find the PCN on the car, and asking them to reinstate the discount. If you're really lucky they might mess up the response.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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