Author Topic: London borough of Havering - 31J PCN entering and stopping in box junction - PCN - Main Road/Upper Brentwood Road  (Read 1034 times)

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smithakp1

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Hi,

I am seeking some assistance and guidance regarding the PCN from the London borough of Havering for an alleged traffic contravention 31J: entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited.

The alleged contravention happened on the 29th May, and the notice was issued on 13th June which I received today.

Here is the link to the PCN. https://imgur.com/a/dZTdQ5v

Here is the video https://drive.google.com/file/d/17B_3mOFQnngn4Tad0qVcIRMnlc5QmBrr/view?usp=drive_link.

Here's the Google street view link: https://maps.app.goo.gl/GPLzRJZji6ZxXxp46

As you can see from the video, I was crossing the yellow box and the traffic in the front stopped. Since I could not go forward, I tried to reverse but had to stop within the box itself as the traffic behind me came to a standstill due to the traffic lights. I could only restart after the traffic in front of me cleared.

I would like to understand if it makes sense to challenge this, and if yes, how must I phrase my representation?

Many thanks for your assistance.

Kind regards
Smitha

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Grant Urismo

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I'm getting an 'access denied' message trying to watch the video, you'll need to set the permissions up so we can look at it.

smithakp1

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Hi,

I have provided access to the video now.

Incandescent

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I'm not hopeful on the contravention itself, as the video shows you driving into the box with no hesitation, then being forced to stop when the bus stops, the care behind you also had to almost stop, but may have got away without a PCN by manoevring round the bus.

There may be a "technical" defence based on the camera authorisation though, so wait and see what the experts say on this one.

smithakp1

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Hippocrates

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Thank you. Any advice please
Cameras do not need authorisation in this law. The whole of the PCN please.
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899
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cp8759

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@smithakp1 please post the remaining pages of the PCN.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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smithakp1

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« Last Edit: June 17, 2024, 09:29:43 am by smithakp1 »

Hippocrates

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Ah ah! The last bulleted ground is, ironically, invalid. This ground is not afforded in this legislation. I would make a collateral challenge on this as it causes confusion.

As per their directions on the PCN:

Dear Havering

Ref: PCN                          VRM

I make this formal representation against the said PCN:

The PCN is unenforceable because it contains a ground referring to the traffic order being invalid which does not belong in this legislation. Therefore, please cancel it forthwith.

Yours faithfully


etc etc.


****

(Yet another council which cannot simply copy and paste. They had major problems with their bus lane PCNs until recently.)
I  am more than happy to represent if this goes the full distance. Let's see what their response will be.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2024, 09:58:06 am by Hippocrates »
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

smithakp1

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Thank you so much @Hippocrates. This is very helpful. I will go ahead and challenge this as per your instruction.

Hippocrates

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How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

smithakp1

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Ah ah! The last bulleted ground is, ironically, invalid. This ground is not afforded in this legislation. I would make a collateral challenge on this as it causes confusion.

As per their directions on the PCN:

Dear Havering

Ref: PCN                          VRM

I make this formal representation against the said PCN:

The PCN is unenforceable because it contains a ground referring to the traffic order being invalid which does not belong in this legislation. Therefore, please cancel it forthwith.

Yours faithfully


etc etc.


****

(Yet another council which cannot simply copy and paste. They had major problems with their bus lane PCNs until recently.)
I  am more than happy to represent if this goes the full distance. Let's see what their response will be.

My challenge has been rejected. Here is the link to the letter from Havering Council

https://imgur.com/a/9NVqHks

Please let me know what I can do now.

John U.K.

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Quote
Please let me know what I can do now.

Wait for Hippocrates to comment.
Assuming you sent what he had drafted, there is a total failure by Mr.Playford to address the point Hippocrates was making.




smithakp1

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Yes, I did send exactly what @Hippocrates has mentioned.

Hippocrates

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Tribunal time. NOR also does not state the adjudicator may extend time. Drop me a PM if you want me to represent you. Total failure to consider the issue as highlighted.
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899