3. Liverpool PCN - Parking in Residents Parking bay with Visitors Parking Permit
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Liverpool PCN - Parking in Residents Parking bay with Visitors Parking Permit
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Hello,

I am writing to appeal a parking ticket that I was (I think) unfairly issued. In summary, I was given a ticket for parking in a residents only bay.

I arrived shortly before 09:30. I went to the apartment of the person I was visiting (up 4x flights of stairs) and back, collected the permit and put it in my car. When I returned to my car, at 09:37 a PCN has been issued.

I appealed this, and was told that the it was my responsiblity to have a permit the whole time that I was parked (which I agree with), but surely there must be some grace period to allow to go and *get* a permit, when visiting? Secondly, I was told that the visitors permit is not valid in a residents zone, and is only valid on the street printed on the permit (and not the zone, which is also printed on the permit).

I fortunatley kept the letter that the permit came with, and it seems to contradict this - which states

'Please note that the vehicle in which this permit is displayed may only be parked within on-street residents parking bays, Permitted Parking Areas, Multi-Use bays, or pay and display bays within the K Zone (see attached details), however this does not guarantee a parking space. If you do not park wholly within the markings of the bays, you may be liable for a parking ticket. Please ensure that you park your car with a thought for'.

Therefore, I think I should have grounds to have this PCN accepted. What do people of the forum think?

Please see here for a copy of:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1594kOeVYLWAc4_e2f5w6CsijgIBbyzAz?usp=drive_link

-PCN - front and rear
-CEO's evidence
-Informal appeal rejection
-Copy of the permit, which states on the rear that parking in Permitted Parking Areas is permitted.

Thank you.
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Re: Liverpool PCN - Parking in Residents Parking bay with Visitors Parking Permit
« Reply #1 on: »
Informal Appeal - sent 21st April 25.
Quote
To whom it may concern,
I was issued a PCN on 19 April 2025, when parked on Back St Bride Street. There were no parking spaces on Bedford Street South, which is why I parked behind the building I was visiting.
I arrived for a 09:30 appointment at the top floor arparmtnet  154 Bedford Street South, to assist with their WIFI system. This apartment is on the top floor, (4 flights of stairs).
I arrived approx. 09:28 and made my way to the property. I was carrying a large box of WiFi and networking equipment.
On arrival, I put down the equipment, got a visitors permit from the resident and returned to put this in my car.
In this time, a PCN has been issued, having made observations between 09:29 and 09:36.
At little after 09:37, I returned to find a PCN on my car.
I request that the PCN is cancelled, as I did have access to and display a valid residents permit when I was parked. For parking systems that require a physical permit, sufficient time should be allowed to actually collect the permit.
I have attached time stamped photographs, which demonstrate the time I returned to my car and put the permit in.
Thank you,

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Re: Liverpool PCN - Parking in Residents Parking bay with Visitors Parking Permit
« Reply #2 on: »
Your google drive document link doesn't seem to work properly. It tells me I have to request access. There must be some option that you need to set to make the file folder public?
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Re: Liverpool PCN - Parking in Residents Parking bay with Visitors Parking Permit
« Reply #3 on: »
The basic principle for all controlled parking spaces, is that time is allowed to pay or obtain a voucher/permit/disc etc If it wasn't, nobody could ever park legally !  Their letter is therefore total tosh, but is the usual Fob-Off letter.

Adjudications over the years have established that no contravention occurs for parking and then going to the intended address to obtain a parking permit. I have read adjudications many years ago that established this principle and it still applies.  So you should stand your ground on this one and take them to adjudication if they prove obdurate.
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Re: Liverpool PCN - Parking in Residents Parking bay with Visitors Parking Permit
« Reply #4 on: »
Hello,

I have tried to share it with Drop Box - perhaps this will work.

Thank you both for your replies so far.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/x6r9ttqgpduffjf4jssgw/AK-YISLZ76UhIgEYo-TsSLc?rlkey=wdl503fbhiw7me1swm26fdoh2&dl=0
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Re: Liverpool PCN - Parking in Residents Parking bay with Visitors Parking Permit
« Reply #5 on: »
 
Quote
"City Council has legally designated the areas as a PPA so
that any residents, providing they are able to clearly display a valid resident
permit or in the event of visitors a valid visitor permit, may park anywhere
within the PPA."

Quote
"I have considered the points that you have made about the issue of the PCN.
Unless you are in receipt of a valid ‘Residents Parking Permit’, you must park
your vehicle in a manner that complies with the parking regulations."

How they can produce such tosh is beyond me. You need to take them all the way with this one. Yes, you have to risk the extra £35, but do you really want to joint the Mugged Club ?

If you are going to stand your ground, you need to wait for the Notice to Owner, then submit your reps again. Hopefully somebody with half a brain will then cancel the PCN. If you pay-up now, it is game over.
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Re: Liverpool PCN - Parking in Residents Parking bay with Visitors Parking Permit
« Reply #6 on: »
Posted in error
« Last Edit: May 06, 2025, 03:46:38 pm by twigtwig »
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Re: Liverpool PCN - Parking in Residents Parking bay with Visitors Parking Permit
« Reply #7 on: »
Hello Incandescent,

I am happy to donate the money, if the PCN is cancelled, on behalf of the website to the hospice mentioned on some posts or to support the website itself as this is important work!

I agree entirely that their rejection letter is contradictory and tosh, it even says in the T&C of the permit that you may park in a PPA with a visitors permit!

I have one question. The council have said that the permit is valid only on the street printed on the permit (in this case Bedford Street South). However, this is not stated on the terms on the back of the permit, the letter that it came with - and in addition - it also states Zone K - so surely it follows the permit is valid in Zone K too (which is what all other docs suggest!?)

I will wait until I receive NTO - thanks both for your advice. I feel confident that we will be sucessful.
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Re: Liverpool PCN - Parking in Residents Parking bay with Visitors Parking Permit
« Reply #8 on: »
Hello - NTO has arrived today - please see here - https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/a9rgzm4zdk9i3xwzolkal/Notice-To-Owner.pdf?rlkey=lr39i72tzvcwkc9p2fe60wj8x&dl=0

I was going to reply and re-appeal on the earlier grounds (nb I took the minimum time possible to obtain a paper permit). I also was going to appeal on the following points of procedural impropriety.

-In the response to my informal appeal, the council state that :

Quote
I have noted the details within your incoming challenge and the evidence of the permit supplied and I must inform you that the permit you have submitted is not valid in the location your vehicle was parked, therefore had the permit been displayed in the vehicle a PCN would still have been issued.

When a visitor’s permit is issued it is valid within the Zone in which is stated on the permit, however if a permit has a specific street name printed then the permit is only valid in that location.

The permit that you have supplied clearly states visitors permit, Bedford Street South, meaning the permit is only valid when used in a vehicle parked in Bedford Street South.

While on the letter that came with the permit it states

Quote
Please note that the vehicle in which this permit is displayed may only be parked within on-street residents parking bays, Permitted Parking Areas, Multi-Use bays, or pay and display bays within the K Zone (see attached details), however this does not guarantee a parking space. If you do not park wholly within the markings of the bays, you may be liable for a parking ticket. Please ensure that you park your car with a thought for others by leaving as small a gap as is practical and note that if you park across driveways you will risk having your permit cancelled.


Finally, in the NTO, in the second paragraph, of the NOTE, there appears to be an error in their template, which states 'A penalty charge of £ &CBALA is now payable!

Any other grounds / advice appreciated.

Best.
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Re: Liverpool PCN - Parking in Residents Parking bay with Visitors Parking Permit
« Reply #9 on: »
You should point out in your reps, that their statement in their letter that your permit was only valid for Bedford Street South, contradicts the instructions issue by your council for use of my permit. These state : -

<extract from instructions>

You were therefore entitled to park in any zone within the 'K' zone.
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Re: Liverpool PCN - Parking in Residents Parking bay with Visitors Parking Permit
« Reply #10 on: »
I shall do, I will submit a response tomorrow.

Thanks.
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Re: Liverpool PCN - Parking in Residents Parking bay with Visitors Parking Permit
« Reply #11 on: »
Hello Incandescnent,

Well that was a quick turnaround! Appeal accepted. Thank you. Please do let me know how I can either donate to the site or to the hospice charity, whichever you reccomend.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/o2gaobwfp2byp1jjll65j/Cancellation-of-PCN.PDF?rlkey=fgsmpcu211ps2p6coxzi3ezik&dl=0

Thank you for your support and guidance.
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Re: Liverpool PCN - Parking in Residents Parking bay with Visitors Parking Permit
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Re: Liverpool PCN - Parking in Residents Parking bay with Visitors Parking Permit
« Reply #14 on: »
"....used our discretion". What tosh ! The contravention did not occur. But its a win, anyway, so well done !
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  3. Liverpool PCN - Parking in Residents Parking bay with Visitors Parking Permit