Author Topic: Litchfield Street, parked on double yellow - City of Westminster  (Read 705 times)

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neverpaying

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Re: Litchfield Street, parked on double yellow - City of Westminster
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2023, 01:47:19 pm »
I will submit this end of day. My 14 day period runs out on Sunday and I will not be available over the weekend
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cp8759

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Re: Litchfield Street, parked on double yellow - City of Westminster
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2023, 11:51:23 pm »
Well the parking rules explicitly allow parking in these circumstances, so you're not asking them to make any sort of exception, but you've put in the key facts so even if they reject, we can sort this out later on.

In the meantime, make sure to keep hold of any medical evidence about the injury please.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I am not a lawyer.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

neverpaying

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Re: Litchfield Street, parked on double yellow - City of Westminster
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2023, 01:28:11 pm »
Received this email today. Doesn't look like they even considered the representation.

Thank you for your correspondence regarding the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) we apologise for the delay in our response.

I have carried out a review of your case and considered all of the information you provided but, on this occasion, I am unable to cancel the PCN.

The following 2 options are now available:
Option 1 - Payment at the reduced rate can be made within 14 days from the date of this letter:
... [payment options listed]

Option 2 - Make a Formal Representation
If you have not paid before the end of the period of 28 days, beginning with the date of service of the PCN, we will issue a Notice to Owner (NtO) to the registered keeper of the vehicle. The NtO will allow the registered keeper to make fullpayment or a Formal Representation, appealing against the issue of the PCN; the procedure for doing so will be explained on the NtO. Any new evidence can be presented with the formal Representation.

We will consider any representations, even where we have previously concluded that the evidence does not merit cancellation of the PCN. If we reject the formal representation, the keeper will be able to appeal to an independent parking adjudicator, who will be able to consider whether the motorist's case falls within any of the statutory grounds for appeal. It is not possible to appeal to a parking adjudicator without going through the process of making a formal representation to the local authority.

H C Andersen

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Re: Litchfield Street, parked on double yellow - City of Westminster
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2023, 02:00:43 pm »

OP, are you the registered keeper of the vehicle with current DVLA keeper details.

As you are claiming an exemption the burden lies with you to prove. But from what I can see you did not provide the authority with any evidence, you simply
claimed the exemption by reference to escorting someone who needed your assistance to a restaurant. To be honest, if all that was needed to escape a PCN for parking on DYL in Westminster was to claim to be assisting a person alight then the city would be awash with them.

We need to see what proof you can provide. To start with, you referred to Rasa Sayang, but GSV shows the nearest one is more than 400m away by foot in Macclesfield St. /Dansey Pl*, were you referring to somewhere else? Also, do you have a receipt from the restaurant for this period and anything to link you to a passenger requiring assistance?

*- and elsewhere in the thread you say that where she finally went was not your first target restaurant which was 'too busy and for which she did not have a reservation'.

neverpaying

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Re: Litchfield Street, parked on double yellow - City of Westminster
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2023, 02:22:36 pm »

OP, are you the registered keeper of the vehicle with current DVLA keeper details.

As you are claiming an exemption the burden lies with you to prove. But from what I can see you did not provide the authority with any evidence, you simply
claimed the exemption by reference to escorting someone who needed your assistance to a restaurant. To be honest, if all that was needed to escape a PCN for parking on DYL in Westminster was to claim to be assisting a person alight then the city would be awash with them.

We need to see what proof you can provide. To start with, you referred to Rasa Sayang, but GSV shows the nearest one is more than 400m away by foot in Macclesfield St. /Dansey Pl*, were you referring to somewhere else? Also, do you have a receipt from the restaurant for this period and anything to link you to a passenger requiring assistance?

*- and elsewhere in the thread you say that where she finally went was not your first target restaurant which was 'too busy and for which she did not have a reservation'.

I am the registered keeper of the vehicle.

To my representation, I also attached a screenshot of a discharge letter from the doctors that state their findings "a fracture" with the patient's name (sharing surname of mine).

I have forgotten what the first restuarant was but I can find out. I already have a receipt from the restaurant from this period. You're right, it is the one that is a 4 minute walk away from the parking site but as I mentioned, I was circling for some time to find somewhere appropriate to place the car (even paid spots - but those were all taken up as well) as the place is so close to Chinatown, which was incredibly busy at this time. I may have also mentioned but I almost never drive in to central london but the train situation warranted it on this occasion.

H C Andersen

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Re: Litchfield Street, parked on double yellow - City of Westminster
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2023, 03:48:02 pm »
Thanks, that's clearer.

You have a receipt which is good.

Another question: do you know that as regards assisted alighting a DYL with loading blips is the same as one without, the loading restrictions only affect loading and those displaying an applicable disabled parking badge, they do not affect assisted alighting or boarding and their presence doesn't affect consideration of an assisted alighting defence.

I say this because there were numerous lengths of street with DYL and loading restrictions which you could have accessed, if you know what the markings mean.

Please try and remember where your target restaurant was, it's important. Assisted alighting is a limited exemption and parking as close as you could and finding the premises unaccessible does not IMO entitle a driver to then wander, I hope I'm not putting this too strong, the streets looking for somewhere else. The car must be moved out of contravention as soon as the permitted purpose has ceased. But this can be examined in closer detail as more of the events unfold.

neverpaying

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Re: Litchfield Street, parked on double yellow - City of Westminster
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2023, 02:33:44 pm »
No, I wasn't aware of the loading blips until creating this thread.

Regarding appealing this, when do I lose access to the discount? edit: 14 days from letter date so 26/09
« Last Edit: September 14, 2023, 03:50:58 pm by neverpaying »

cp8759

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Re: Litchfield Street, parked on double yellow - City of Westminster
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2023, 11:47:10 pm »
As you have a defence in law, the discount is largely irrelevant. I can't think of a single case where someone has claimed the boarding / alighting exemption with credible evidence and has lost.

If it helps, I'd be happy to represent you at the tribunal.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I am not a lawyer.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

neverpaying

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Re: Litchfield Street, parked on double yellow - City of Westminster
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2023, 03:20:10 pm »
What should I submit now, even if I intend to take this all the way to the tribunal. And was "H C Andersen" accurate when they said that assisted alighting is a limited exemption? How difficult would it be to convince Westminster Council and/or the adjudicators?

H C Andersen

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Re: Litchfield Street, parked on double yellow - City of Westminster
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2023, 03:09:57 pm »
Yes, it is limited.

IMO, the weakness in your account is that you parked, presumably to go to the adjacent restaurant, but in fact went to a restaurant which was unknown, out of sight, in a different street, not the closest alternative and at least 400m from where you parked. You therefore left the car in contravention for longer than necessary.

This is anything but a straightforward assisted alighting case IMO.

cp8759

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Re: Litchfield Street, parked on double yellow - City of Westminster
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2023, 12:38:53 am »
IMO, the weakness in your account is that you parked, presumably to go to the adjacent restaurant, but in fact went to a restaurant which was unknown, out of sight, in a different street, not the closest alternative and at least 400m from where you parked. You therefore left the car in contravention for longer than necessary.
Well, we don't really know that.

@neverpaying, why didn't you park closer to the restaurant you were going to?
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I am not a lawyer.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

neverpaying

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Re: Litchfield Street, parked on double yellow - City of Westminster
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2023, 10:44:21 am »
I have found the original restaurant "Barshu Restaurant". My mother had forgotten the name but I think it's this one.

I probably did enter the adjacent roads to this restaurant initially and didn't find any open parking spaces that I could pay to use or use for free so I expanded out further turning into any road I could until I gave up basically and put it in a side road that I thought would be safe enough from parking attendants. It was only on the walk to Barshu that I asked about the reservation and she said they had forgot to make one so we walked over to "Rasa Sayang" instead, which I was familiar with because I had eaten there once before. Quickly escorted her down the road and she was joined by her friend and I left them and returned back to my car.

H C Andersen

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Re: Litchfield Street, parked on double yellow - City of Westminster
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2023, 12:27:03 pm »


According to your account, you knew where you were going and everything hangs on why Litchfield, which was over 200m from Barshu(and the other side of Charing Cross Road), when, because of the 24/7 loading restriction in the road outside Barshu, in all probability it would have been clear and you could have parked there.

IMO, the distance belies your concern with and your passenger's claimed physical condition i.e. someone who needs assistance is made to walk at least 200m instead of 5m.

This comes into play again with your claim regarding being away for no longer than 6 minutes. Litchfield-Barshu-Rasa-Litchfield(the first two elements accompanying a person who needed assistance to walk) could not be achieved in 6 minutes. It's simply not credible IMO.

Frankly, I think you need to fess up to misunderstanding the meaning of the signs but perhaps obliquely e.g. after looking for an on-street parking place without success, I parked in Litchfield because it was the nearest street I could find without loading restrictions and escorted *** to Barshu from there.etc...

Then there's the separate strand regarding the lawfulness of the DYL as discussed earlier.









cp8759

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Re: Litchfield Street, parked on double yellow - City of Westminster
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2023, 10:09:25 pm »
Quickly escorted her down the road and she was joined by her friend and I left them and returned back to my car.
How was this coordinated with the friend? She can't have known in advance to go to Rasa Sayang because it was a spur of the moment decision. On the other hand if the friend just happened to be in the area and there was an exchange of texts / whatsapp messages, you should be able to get screenshots.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I am not a lawyer.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

neverpaying

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Re: Litchfield Street, parked on double yellow - City of Westminster
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2023, 12:06:00 pm »
"could not be achieved in 6 minutes."

I realise I have made a mistake. The 6 minutes was the difference between the time I took the picture of the road sign and the time the ticket was issued. I came back and saw the ticket very shortly afterwards because I remember thinking I just missed it so probably < 5 minutes. I thought it was time between picture and me seeing the ticket.

Her friend joined her inside the restaurant, my mother called her and I can get a screenshot of that call log if it helps. (Although, my mother is not one for all this fuss and she's already suggested many times that she can just pay the fine herself...)

And to clarify, I didn't wait for her friend to show. I just escorted her inside and she waited at the table and her friend joined her. I'd left them long before and made a, maybe too casual, stroll back to the car.