3. Lifted car - Newham borough
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Lifted car - Newham borough
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Hi! I had a very unfair situation. My car was lifted in front of my house, 20-30 minutes after CEO issued a PCN. Here is the story. In front of my flat is a bus lane which is closed - 7-10am Monday - Friday. I parked in the bus lane at 3 pm on Monday to load some luggage because I was going on holiday. At 3:40 pm I saw that council is lifting my car. I got down to speak with the guy and ask him why he lifts it. He said that I have a PCN and my car is parked on single yellow lane. He shows me the ticket, and the ticket was issued at 3:10 pm. 30 min later the car was already lifted on the truck! He said I have to pay the fine now and they will drop it back. Fine was £265 (200 for the lift and 65 ticket). He also said it pay and appeal procedure so  I can appeal after I pay.  I paid everything over the phone while he was there. I didn't received any receipt or protocol for the payment and the time when my car was lifted and dropped. I can prove the payment with bank statement. Then I saw that the ticket wasn't issued for single yellow lane, it was for parking in restricted hours code 01.  I'll upload photos.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/hcouTNz4xiiJ3rGv8

What can I do? How I can appeal successfully, because for 30 min they wrote the PCN and lifted the car?
And they also haven't issued me any document for my car being lifted, paid and dropped back which I think is wrong. Because if I go on compound parking to get a car I will receive document for this.

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Re: Lifted car - Newham borough
« Reply #1 on: »
The contravention is correct... the yellow line shows that the street is restricted.
They can lift within 30 minutes, even immediately and Newham has form for that.
Loading would be an exemption but at least 30 minutes to justify?
That seems a stretch for luggage that would be expected to be packed and ready to load before parking.

When you got to the car, had the wheels left the ground?
And please confirm you have received no paperwork?
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Re: Lifted car - Newham borough
« Reply #2 on: »
Velina, it is not entirely clear to me what occurred: -

Quote
He said I have to pay the fine now and they will drop it back. Fine was £265 (200 for the lift and 65 ticket). He also said it pay and appeal procedure so  I can appeal after I pay.  I paid everything over the phone while he was there. I didn't received any receipt or protocol for the payment and the time when my car was lifted and dropped.
So was the car not taken to the pound ? Normally when collecting a car after it has been removed to the pound, one is issued with paperwork (documents),  that (1) gives a receipt for payment, and (2) the appeal arrangements. If you have received no documents at all, then that is highly irregular, and they have broken the law.

So please confirm what happened.
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Re: Lifted car - Newham borough
« Reply #3 on: »
Can you get a screenshot from your online banking showing that you paid £265?

Also, can you please post the back of the PCN?

This should be straightforward in principle, even though it might be a bit of a mess from a procedural standpoint. In essence by failing to give you the appeal paperwork there and then, the council has committed a procedural impropriety.

The only issue might be if the council claims it's not a removal case, but the amount you paid proves that it is.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Lifted car - Newham borough
« Reply #4 on: »
I haven't received any paperwork apart of the PCN. When I got out to speak with the council guy, the car was in the air, so basically the truck has just picked it up, but my car wheels weren't on the truck platform.
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Re: Lifted car - Newham borough
« Reply #5 on: »
The car wasn't dropped in compound parking. It was in the air when I saw them, and while I spoke with the guy who lifted it, the driver of the truck put in on the truck's platform. I asked the guy to drop it back and I'll move it straight away but he said I have to pay first. I was in rush so even I wasn't happy to pay, I paid £265 over the phone and ask how I can appeal. So I paid and got no paperwork at all but got my car dropped back. I don't have this representation sheet and so on.
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Re: Lifted car - Newham borough
« Reply #6 on: »
If you can prove payment then this is simples because they are not allowed to take the vehicle if you return before it is on the truck so in the air they should put it down and leave not charging you as that is not allowed
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Re: Lifted car - Newham borough
« Reply #7 on: »
As soon as I don't have representation paperwork how I can appeal it?
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Re: Lifted car - Newham borough
« Reply #8 on: »
OP----did you take a photo with the car in the air?

I presume you have details of the payment by phone and the time of payment?

Newham have really mucked this up so stick with it, there are so many procedural improprieties it's laughable.

The £200 represents the lift and tow so the latter part didn't happen.

You are in a prejudicial situation because the onboard CEO did not give you appeal papers.How would you know there are recourse procedures?

They are supposed to stop the lift if the car is in mid-air if the driver asks them to put the vehicle back on the carriageway.

Mike
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Re: Lifted car - Newham borough
« Reply #9 on: »
For reference from Sec of Stat Statutory Guidance
Quote
If a driver returns to the vehicle whilst immobilisation or removal is taking place, then it is recommended that the operation is halted, unless the clamp is secured or the vehicle has all its wheels aboard the tow truck. If immobilisation or removal is halted, the PCN should still be enforced.
Can be found in on street activities hre
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/civil-enforcement-of-parking-contraventions/guidance-for-local-authorities-on-enforcing-parking-restrictions#on-street-activities

Recommended not must release but as with all statutory guidance, an authority can and should be tasked with explaining why they ignored and show good reason to.
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Re: Lifted car - Newham borough
« Reply #10 on: »
I just noticed that there is no legislation at the top of the PCN which governs the service and enforcement of the PCN. Not sure whether this is mandatory or not, but it seems odd.
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Re: Lifted car - Newham borough
« Reply #11 on: »
OP, this is a procedural matter and you should treat it as such. Just set out the key issues, nothing to do with the contravention which by your own account was committed because this would be a distraction.

Write to the council. These are not representations as such because you are outside this framework. There is no provision in law or, I'll bet, in council procedures for a CEO or anyone to accept payment in these circumstances. A vehicle once removed must be delivered to a car pound and only there may the owner recover their vehicle on payment and require a receipt.

So for the moment IMO the issue is what happened at the location.

Apparently you don't have a receipt but your bank records would show a payment comprising the discount plus removal fee. And who is the payee(the person paid) according to your bank account?

One step at a time, but quick steps!

Do you have a record of this payment and to whom was it made?

Once we've (hopefully) established the start of this part of the paper trail then you can write to the council...

On 31 July I was issued with a PCN, copy enclosed which I noticed as I observed your operatives removing my car.

I met the operatives as they were in the process of lifting my vehicle(its wheels were off the ground but not yet placed on the removal vehicle). They demanded full payment of £265(£200 and £65 for the removal fee and penalty respectively) to return my car. Under protest I phoned ****** and paid £265 to a/c *********, copy of this transaction from my account enclosed. Your operatives did not provide me with any paperwork.

Given that your operatives were not authorised to demand payment, that no payment was due because the vehicle should have been returned to the ground as it had not been placed on the removal vehicle and that proper procedures regarding receipt and formal notification as to my legal options were not followed then the council has a serious problem. The degree to which I need to be involved with the resolution of your problems will depend upon your response to this complaint.

Please acknowledge receipt by return.

Yours

is my approach.
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Re: Lifted car - Newham borough
« Reply #12 on: »
Whilst i do not disagree with a complaint, you should make representations to the council that they have committed a procedural impropriety. you want your money back and getting that through the complaints procedure is very long winded 
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Re: Lifted car - Newham borough
« Reply #13 on: »
HCA's draft can be sent in reference to the PCN and pseudo removal.
And IMO should if only to maintain deadlines for reps to be made.
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Re: Lifted car - Newham borough
« Reply #14 on: »
Just adding another excerpt from the Statutory guidance...relevnt to the lack of information regarding how to challenge the removal.
Quote
On the release of a vehicle from a clamp or the vehicle pound, the authority must [footnote 26] immediately inform the vehicle owner or person in charge of the vehicle about their right to make representations and their subsequent right to appeal against representations that are rejected.

The vehicle will already have been issued a PCN that sets out the grounds on which representations can be made. However, the Secretary of State recommends that the notice about representations against the immobilisation or removal also gives full particulars of the grounds, procedure and time limit for representations. This is particularly important when credit or debit payments are made over the telephone.
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