3. Lewisham, Code 53J, Pedestrian Zone, Upper Brockley Rd / Ashby Rd
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Hippocrates

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Re: Lewisham, Code 53J, Pedestrian Zone, Upper Brockley Rd / Ashby Rd
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2024, 07:22:37 pm »
Good.
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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε

FishBoy

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Re: Lewisham, Code 53J, Pedestrian Zone, Upper Brockley Rd / Ashby Rd
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2024, 07:27:14 pm »
@Hippocrates

Representation submitted, will let you know the outcome.

Many thanks.
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FishBoy

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Re: Lewisham, Code 53J, Pedestrian Zone, Upper Brockley Rd / Ashby Rd
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2024, 12:08:52 am »
@Hippocrates

Notice of Rejection of Representation received 28/11/24, dated 25/11/24

Should I scan & post it here?

What are the next steps?

Many thanks.
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Hippocrates

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Re: Lewisham, Code 53J, Pedestrian Zone, Upper Brockley Rd / Ashby Rd
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2024, 03:17:07 am »
Please. And this is the current status which is an illegal threat:

Penalty Charge Notice details
Ticket ReferenceZY09848835
Your PCN is at full rate stage. PCN process information
Vehicle Registration NumberGV59FUT
ColourGREY
MakeMAZDA
Contravention53j - Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone (camera enforcement)
LocationUpper Brockley Road Junction of Ashby Road
First seen atThu, 17 Oct 2024 15:40
Issued atThu, 17 Oct 2024 15:40
Served byPost
The amount outstanding on the Penalty Charge Notice will increase to £195.00 on Thu, 12 Dec 2024. Please pay £65.00 now.
You have already made representations for this PCN and we replied on Mon, 25 Nov 2024. You cannot make representations twice
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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε

FishBoy

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Re: Lewisham, Code 53J, Pedestrian Zone, Upper Brockley Rd / Ashby Rd
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2024, 02:32:35 pm »
@Hippocrates

I had to scan it as a PDF which I then found Imgur can't handle, so have stored it on Google Drive, share link is here -

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_dGKHd_WcgUKR73n4rWLHI3MA0wEwrhF/view?usp=sharing

Please shout if you can't access it.

Many thanks.

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Hippocrates

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Re: Lewisham, Code 53J, Pedestrian Zone, Upper Brockley Rd / Ashby Rd
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2024, 07:41:08 pm »
Cannot access. E mail it to me via my PM. Got it thanks.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2024, 08:24:34 pm by Hippocrates »
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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε

FishBoy

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Re: Lewisham, Code 53J, Pedestrian Zone, Upper Brockley Rd / Ashby Rd
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2024, 02:15:10 pm »
@Hippocrates If you have time I'd appreciate a realistic indication of my chances at tribunal, to allow me to decide whether to appeal.

What would be the grounds for appeal? Would it purely be the anomalies with the PCN dates & incorrect / threatening demands for payment, or are there other reasons - inadequate / confusing signage, the road being closed affecting the choice of routes available, the lack of an address for physical payment?

Many thanks as always.
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Hippocrates

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Re: Lewisham, Code 53J, Pedestrian Zone, Upper Brockley Rd / Ashby Rd
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2024, 02:20:08 pm »
Yes. I say Tribunal time.
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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε

FishBoy

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Re: Lewisham, Code 53J, Pedestrian Zone, Upper Brockley Rd / Ashby Rd
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2024, 09:56:32 pm »
@Hippocrates could you briefly explain the appeal process please? And would you be willing & able to assist me with it? Many thanks.
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FishBoy

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Re: Lewisham, Code 53J, Pedestrian Zone, Upper Brockley Rd / Ashby Rd
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2024, 12:54:54 am »
Just checking the status quo, it's still asking me to pay £65, but it's now saying it will increase to £195 "very soon". Is this vague timescale within the regulations? Do I need to guess when it will be? Is this another ground for appeal?



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Incandescent

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Re: Lewisham, Code 53J, Pedestrian Zone, Upper Brockley Rd / Ashby Rd
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2024, 01:01:17 am »
Quote
Is this vague timescale within the regulations? Do I need to guess when it will be? Is this another ground for appeal?
This is typical council intimidation, to "encourage" you to cough-up, but whilst useful to include in any reps to an adjudicator, is unlikely to be the sole reason for a win. I presume they have re-offered the discount in a letter of rejection. The date when this expires would not seem to be included in their computer system functionality, hence the vagueness.
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FishBoy

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Re: Lewisham, Code 53J, Pedestrian Zone, Upper Brockley Rd / Ashby Rd
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2024, 01:12:08 am »
Yes the discount was offered for 14 days, which should have been 12/12, but the status quo was stating it would go up to £195 then instead of £130?

Another thing I would like advice on, the height of the restriction signs. I think I've read that there are no regulations / guidelines for this, but I went out and measured them today and the bottom of the signs are 3.4m & 3.6m. Surely that is too high? If you're turning left there's no way you can see them from the driver's seat!
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Hippocrates

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Re: Lewisham, Code 53J, Pedestrian Zone, Upper Brockley Rd / Ashby Rd
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2024, 10:39:45 am »
2240451990

3ff: 3. Mr Morgan has provided a screenshot showing the online portal on the Authority's website, with information about the Appellant's appeal and its current status. The date shown on the desktop is 2 November 2024. There is a message highlighted in yellow, which states "The amount outstanding on the Penalty Charge Notice will increase to £195.00 on Sun, 3 Nov 2024. Please pay £130.00 now." Mr Morgan submitted that this amounted to bullying and was incorrect. Mr Morgan referred me to the decision of Adjudicator Houghton in 2240362722, where an appeal was allowed when the same message was displayed.
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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε

Hippocrates

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Re: Lewisham, Code 53J, Pedestrian Zone, Upper Brockley Rd / Ashby Rd
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2024, 10:46:19 am »
Quote from: FishBoy on December 11, 2024, 09:56:32 pm
@Hippocrates could you briefly explain the appeal process please? And would you be willing & able to assist me with it? Many thanks.
Of course. By e mail. Really busy today and have a musical weekend and much travel involved too.
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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε
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