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Leeds City Council, 50J Performing a prohibited turn (camera enforcement), Banned Turn Green Inc Stonegate Rd

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#1
Hi,

I've received a Moving Traffic Contravention PCN in Leeds.

There's a junction that has been reconfigured and I didn't realised it now forbids a right turn from Green Road onto Meanwood Road, which I took. I'm keen to know if I have a case to contest this PCN as I've since discovered that many motorists have made the same error. It's a terrible new layout meaning no-one can turn right onto the main road.

I've since been back to the site and the only indication that it is left turn only is a 'no right turn/camera' sign about 2 metres from the end of the junction to the left of the bike lane and a left arrow floor marking in the lane also two metres from the junction.

Photos can be found in the link below and the Council photos and video. Note that so many cars have turned right at this junction that there is no longer a bollard at the end of the very shallow island because it has been hit so many times by motorists turning right (there was no bollard there when I turned right and the floor appears flat from the top of the junction).

I would expect a much more visible blue 'left turn only' sign on the opposite side to the junction. If you look right as you approach the junction, the only sign, two metres from it on the left, can easily be missed.

Thank you for your time and assistance in this matter.

Photos and Video: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1zUpFCOIF9UMMQaM065hH4GCijYy4-KRR?usp=share_link

Google Map Link: https://maps.app.goo.gl/MNVUGwMzZhzGSzDw5

Please note, as the main road bends around to the left it turns from being Stonegate Road to Meanwood Road. The contravention was turning from Green Road onto Meanwood Road when looking at this google map despite the 'location' name.
Last Edit: September 05, 2026, 05:26:05 pm by RootieTootie
#6
The NRT sign is very badly placed being almost immediately behind the traffic light column and lights for the pedestrian crossing. So any reps you submit need to major on this. Also try to find out how many PCNs are being served here per day/month

Sign adequacy is a duty on councils under Regulation 18 (1)(a) of LATOR 1996 (see below)

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/regulation/18
#7
The NRT sign is very badly placed being almost immediately behind the traffic light column and lights for the pedestrian crossing. So any reps you submit need to major on this. Also try to find out how many PCNs are being served here per day/month

Sign adequacy is a duty on councils under Regulation 18 (1)(a) of LATOR 1996 (see below)

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/regulation/18

Thanks, how do I find out how many PCNs are being served here per day/month?
#8
I've written an FOI. Is this okay? Or is it requesting too much info?

Dear Leeds City Council,

Under the Freedom of Information Act 2000, I would like to request information relating specifically to the camera-enforced prohibited turn at the junction of Green Road and Stonegate Road, Meanwood, Leeds.

For the avoidance of doubt, I am not requesting city-wide figures or figures relating to prohibited turns generally. I am requesting information relating solely to the specific prohibited-turn restriction and enforcement camera at this junction.

Please provide the following information for the period from the commencement of camera enforcement to the date of your response:

1. PCNs issued at this specific location

a. The date on which camera enforcement commenced and the date on which the first PCN was issued.

b. The number of vehicle contraventions detected by the camera, broken down by month.

c. The number of PCNs actually issued, broken down by month.

d. The total number of PCNs issued at this location since enforcement commenced.

2. Representations and cancellations

Please provide:

a. The number of representations/challenges received concerning PCNs issued at this specific location.

b. The number of those PCNs subsequently cancelled.

c. Where this information is recorded, the number of representations which referred to:

unclear or confusing signage;
confusion about the road layout or permitted movements;
the junction having been altered or reconfigured; or
motorists believing that the manoeuvre was permitted.
d. The number of PCNs cancelled following representations on any of the above grounds.

I am not requesting any personal information about individual motorists.

3. Signage and road layout

Please provide copies of, or links to, any documents held by the Council showing the signage, road markings and road layout relating to this prohibited turn at the time camera enforcement commenced, including:

relevant site plans or drawings;
photographs;
details of the signs installed and their positions;
details of the road markings;
records of any subsequent changes to the signs, markings or road layout; and
any inspection or compliance records relating to the signage and markings before enforcement commenced.
4. Traffic Regulation Order

Please provide a copy of the Traffic Regulation Order, amendment order or other legal instrument which creates the prohibited turn enforced by this camera, together with any relevant map, schedule or plan.

Please also confirm:

the date on which the restriction came into force;
the precise prohibited movement covered by the order; and
whether the order has subsequently been amended.
Location

The location referred to throughout this request is the camera-enforced prohibited-turn restriction at the Green Road / Stonegate Road junction in Meanwood, Leeds.

If the Council identifies this location using a camera ID, restriction ID, TRO reference or other internal identifier, please use that identifier when extracting the information to ensure that the response relates specifically to this camera and restriction.

If any requested information is not held in the exact format requested, please provide the nearest equivalent information that is held.

If you consider that any part of this request exceeds the appropriate cost limit, please provide the information that can be supplied within the limit and identify which specific elements would need to be narrowed.

I would be grateful if the information could be provided electronically.

#9
All OK, but this stuff is not likely to arrive within the timescale for responding to the PCN.  this sort of info is what you would supply at adjudication to back up your argument about signage indequacy . Whatever you write, the council will reject it, you have to be prepared to take them to adjudication and forgo the discount.
#10
This is my intended representations letter. Please let me know if it is sufficient:

**Representation against Penalty Charge Notice: [PCN NUMBER]**

Dear Leeds City Council,

I am writing to make representations against the above Penalty Charge Notice, issued in relation to the alleged prohibited right turn at the junction of Green Road and Stonegate Road, Meanwood.

I accept that my vehicle made the right turn shown in the enforcement evidence. However, I respectfully submit that the prohibition was not adequately or clearly conveyed to a driver approaching the junction and that the signing and road layout did not provide adequate information that the right turn was prohibited.

### 1. Regulation 18 of the LATOR 1996: requirement for adequate information

Regulation 18(1)(a) of the Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996 requires an authority to take such steps as are necessary to secure:

 "the placing on or near the road of such traffic signs in such positions as the order making authority may consider requisite for securing that adequate information as to the effect of the order is made available to persons using the road."

Regulation 18(1)(b) further requires such signs to be maintained for as long as the order remains in force.

My representation is that, viewed in the context of this particular approach to the junction, the signage did not provide adequate information to me as a driver that the right turn was prohibited.

### 2. The No Right Turn sign is poorly positioned and easy to miss

There is a No Right Turn sign positioned to the left of the cycle lane as the junction is approached. It is immediately adjacent to and visually competes with the traffic-light infrastructure and pedestrian crossing signals behind it.

A driver's attention approaching this junction is naturally drawn towards the traffic signals, the junction itself, pedestrians and cyclists, and the traffic movements taking place around the junction. In that context, the single No Right Turn sign is relatively easy to miss.

I did not deliberately disregard a clearly visible prohibition. I simply did not register the restriction in sufficient time to understand that the apparently available right turn was prohibited.

### 3. The left-turn road marking is positioned some distance before the junction

There is a left-turn road marking on the approach. However, this is approximately two metres before the junction itself.

While I recognise that this marking is relevant to the restriction, its position means that it is not an immediate or particularly prominent indication at the point where a driver is actually making the decision about which direction to take.

There is also no prominent supplementary sign immediately at the junction stating that the approach is left-turn only.

The combination of the relatively inconspicuous No Right Turn sign and the road marking being some distance before the junction does not, in my view, provide sufficiently clear information in the circumstances.

### 4. The physical layout reinforces the impression that a right turn is available

The configuration of the junction makes the right turn appear physically available to a driver approaching it. This is particularly significant because right turns at this location were historically permitted.

I appreciate that the historical position does not determine the current restriction. My point is that, given the physical appearance of the junction, the prohibition needs to be conveyed particularly clearly to approaching drivers.

In this case, the restriction depends heavily on a driver noticing and interpreting the No Right Turn sign and the road marking in the approach, rather than the layout itself making the prohibited movement immediately apparent.

### 5. The missing bollard removes an additional visual cue

There was also a bollard on the traffic island ahead which has since been cleanly knocked off and is no longer present.

I appreciate that the absence of the bollard does not, in itself, remove the legal prohibition on making the turn. I mention it as part of the overall visual context.

The bollard would have provided an additional physical and visual cue that the movement was not intended to be made. Its absence makes the right turn appear even more physically available and therefore reinforces the importance of clear and prominent signage.

### 6. This is an issue of adequate signing, not simply unfamiliarity with a new layout

I appreciate that the wider Meanwood junction scheme is no longer a new change. My representation is therefore not simply that I was unfamiliar with a recently altered road layout.

Rather, my point is that the current arrangement does not adequately communicate the prohibited movement to a driver approaching this particular junction.

The fact that camera enforcement was subsequently introduced makes it especially important that the restriction is clearly and adequately conveyed before enforcement is undertaken.

### Request for cancellation

I respectfully ask the Council to cancel the PCN in these circumstances.

I would also ask the Council to carry out a site inspection from the approach taken by my vehicle and consider the signage from the perspective of an approaching driver, rather than relying solely on the enforcement camera's position.

In particular, I ask the Council to consider whether the positioning of the No Right Turn sign, the location of the left-turn road marking approximately two metres before the junction, the surrounding traffic-light and pedestrian infrastructure, and the physical appearance of the junction together provide the "adequate information" required by Regulation 18(1)(a).

I would also ask the Council to confirm, in responding to this representation, how it considers that the signage at this location provided adequate information as required by Regulation 18(1)(a).

I have photographs showing the approach, signage and road layout which illustrate the points made above and can provide these in support of my representation.

Yours faithfully,




#11
OK, submit it, but do not expect them to cancel, because CN penalties are now a major source of income for councils of large cities. In London, with the penalties almost double the rest of the UK, around £650 million a year is gained from PCN payments.

Post up their response when received, and we can advise if you should take them to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal or not.
#12
So I've received the rejection of my representations.

This arrived on Monday 28th September.

Here's the letter: https://imgpile.com/p/CB7kKCW

The sign in their image 1) I didn't even notice when I took the pictures on foot it's so far back. It's noticeable if you zoom in in these two pictures. It's not close to the junction as it's before the crossing.

https://imgpile.com/p/N9PAwjx

Here's a screen shot where I've highlighted where that sign is (although not there in google maps).

https://imgpile.com/m/YAdeeAc

All thoughts and advice welcome.
#13
As this case hinges on signage, we really do need to see those signs. Sorry if this means you've got to trek out there again. At t he moment all I see is the geographic layout sign at the junction showing a No Right Turn symbol on the right. You can just about make it out in their first photo. I think that is totally inadequate, but you have to accept you'll have to forego the discount and take them to the TPT.
#14
Here are more photos of the two signs showing their proximity to each other and the junction. The first sign is about 1.5 metres from the road to the left and just before the crossing. The second is obstructed by the traffic light as you approach which you can see in the photos. When you are at the top of the junction there is nothing to indicate it's left only. I'm not sure if they still deem these two signs and the floor marking enough, or if it's legally enough.

https://imgpile.com/p/tCz4f2v
#15
Just had a thought that if this is a mandatory left turn, why don't the traffic lights green phase show left turn arrows.

For me the whole signage array here is a Dog's Breakfast, an indicative of a cheap and nasty scheme. I would go for the council failing in their duty to erect adequate signage to convey the restriction, but you'll only get a positive result at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal. If th council had put green directional arrows on the traffic lights green phase, plus a NRT sign below, I don't think you would ever succeed

So it now is up to you; take the Double-or-Quits gamble at TPT or just cough-up the discount. I have to say, though,  that I don't think success is 'slam dunk'.

Here's Regulation 10 of LATOR 1996: -
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/regulation/18
Last Edit: October 01, 2026, 11:12:53 pm by Incandescent