3. Leahurst Road, LB Lewisham - Contravention 52m - representation rejected by local authority
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Leahurst Road, LB Lewisham - Contravention 52m - representation rejected by local authority
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Hi all, newby to the forum.

I received a PCN for an alleged contravention 52m going West on Leahurst Road in Lewisham on 29/7/24. Having read the various threads from others who'd come a cropper at the same location, I submitted a representation based on previous arguments around the lack of sufficient signage. I wasn't hugely surprised to learn that it had been rejected, but disagree strongly with the decision.

I now wish to appeal to the Adjudicator as the previous cases that have been allowed have given me hope that mine will be too. By my reckoning I have until 10/10/24 to do this - I'm aware I've left it a bit late, but hopefully not too late.

Any advice greatly appreciated @Hippocrates @cp8759

PCN:



Notice of rejection of representation

« Last Edit: October 08, 2024, 12:15:31 am by cp8759 »
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Re: Leahurst Road, LB Lewisham - Contravention 52m - representation rejected by local authority
« Reply #1 on: »
I think @Hippocrates is the expert at this location.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Leahurst Road, LB Lewisham - Contravention 52m - representation rejected by local authority
« Reply #2 on: »
@cp8759 I had a most interesting chat with a former employee of Lewisham today at the Tribunal.  8) Regarding the signage AND the PCN acting as a Notice to Owner. The Three Musketeers are known to her.  8) If I am being watched, I will make good my promise, wear the 616 shirt, and stop people going through this appalling signage. I do not make threats - I make promises.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2024, 09:20:07 pm by Hippocrates »
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I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Leahurst Road, LB Lewisham - Contravention 52m - representation rejected by local authority
« Reply #3 on: »
Appeal filed.
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I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Leahurst Road, LB Lewisham - Contravention 52m - representation rejected by local authority
« Reply #4 on: »
Just returning to this. I had my hearing yesterday and am pleased to say the appeal was allowed by the Adjudicator, Mr Greenslade.

Mr Greenslade had allowed a similar appeal at the same location the week before, and did the same for my case on the same grounds, i.e. lack of sufficient signage. The fact that additional signage has since been installed by the council, which came up in the discussion, only backed this up.

Massive thanks to @Hippocrates for representing me and for submitting an impressive amount of compelling evidence.
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Re: Leahurst Road, LB Lewisham - Contravention 52m - representation rejected by local authority
« Reply #5 on: »
My pleasure and very nice to meet you - even for a short time! I received the FOIR response shortly after your hearing actually.

I have e mailed you.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2024, 07:01:24 pm by Hippocrates »
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I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Leahurst Road, LB Lewisham - Contravention 52m - representation rejected by local authority
« Reply #6 on: »
Logged
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Leahurst Road, LB Lewisham - Contravention 52m - representation rejected by local authority
« Reply #7 on: »
Quote from: 16-bit on November 27, 2024, 03:46:36 pm

Mr Greenslade had allowed a similar appeal at the same location the week before, and did the same for my case on the same grounds, i.e. lack of sufficient signage. The fact that additional signage has since been installed by the council, which came up in the discussion, only backed this up.


https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/lewisham-council-52-m-no-motor-vehicles-leahurst-road-west-bound/msg46145/#msg46145
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I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Leahurst Road, LB Lewisham - Contravention 52m - representation rejected by local authority
« Reply #8 on: »
Hello

I received my second PCN for this spot in six months today. I paid the first one just thinking I missed the sign.

But I drove the same route a few days ago and genuinely did not see the sign so this thread is interesting.

Both times; we turned off Longhurst Road (turning right onto Leahurst).

I was convinced it was a mistake so walked to the area today and took the attached photos. Indeed the signs are there but as this thread mentions, they are at a point of no return. I also find them small and also noticed they are not lit (I drove through at 10pm in December)

The signs are approx 20m after the junction I turned right out of and I am sure I did not see any warning signs on Longhurst.

I will probably just pay it but I do think they should make the signs clearer. As I say - this is the second time and neither time have I seen the signs. There are others nearby that are restricted only during school times which are much clearer.

Andrew


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Re: Leahurst Road, LB Lewisham - Contravention 52m - representation rejected by local authority
« Reply #9 on: »
There have been a lot of wins at adjudication at this notorious location. So please post the PCN, all sides, redacting only your name and address. Rumours have it that the council was so stung by adjudicator criticism, they have improved the signage, but until we look at a recent case we don't know.

Best not to pay until we've had a look, surely ?
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Re: Leahurst Road, LB Lewisham - Contravention 52m - representation rejected by local authority
« Reply #10 on: »
Will do!

Interested to hear there have been recent improvements to the signs there. I can’t imagine what!
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Re: Leahurst Road, LB Lewisham - Contravention 52m - representation rejected by local authority
« Reply #11 on: »
I didn't spot that you seem to have hi-jacked somebody else's thread. So can you please start your own, entering what you have put here. The rule is one Original Poster per thread.
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Re: Leahurst Road, LB Lewisham - Contravention 52m - representation rejected by local authority
« Reply #12 on: »
Apologies. Will do
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Re: Leahurst Road, LB Lewisham - Contravention 52m - representation rejected by local authority
« Reply #13 on: »
Quote from: daviesap on January 18, 2025, 07:26:20 am
Apologies. Will do
Thanks. Once your thread is online it will receive attention from the "PCN Ferrets" ! (I'm one BTW)
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  3. Leahurst Road, LB Lewisham - Contravention 52m - representation rejected by local authority