3. LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (camera)
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Re: LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (cam
« Reply #75 on: »
@WaltWhite make a stage 2 complaint, make it very brief:

Dear London Borough of Redbridge,

Both the parking team and the stage 1 complaints officer appear to have got themselves in a muddle and have not understood my complaint at all.

Firstly I am fully aware that a PCN cannot be cancelled via the complaints process, but I am not asking for the PCN to be cancelled, I am simply requesting that the statutory process be followed correctly.

Secondly the parking team has advised that "Please be advised you have stated you have not received prior correspondence", this is not correct.

The problem I have is this: I *did* receive the penalty charge notice AF30026923 which was dated 14 November 2024 and was deemed served on 18 November 2024 (two working days after posting), I was therefore entitled to 28 days to make representations against the PCN.

If 18 November 2024 is day 1 then day 28 would be 15 December 2024, this means that by law I was entitled to make representations at any time up to midnight on 15 December 2024 and the council was legally required to accept those representations for consideration and to issue either a Notice of Acceptance or a Notice of Rejection.

However when I attempted to make representations on 15 December 2024 the website informed me that the penalty had already gone up to £195 and the right to make representations had been lost, see the attached screenshot I took on 15 December 2024. This is obviously wrong and the council illegally prevented me from submitting representations.

It appears this is a technical issue with your website, which does not calculate the 28 day cut-off time correctly. Owing to this failing by the council I have been prevented from exercising my statutory rights, that is what this complaint is about and that is what I am asking you to put right.

Yours faithfully,



Attach a copy of the screenshot taken on 15 December and rename it as "Screenshot taken on 15 December 2025 at hh:mm"
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (cam
« Reply #76 on: »
Done.

Im worried about all this talk of a debt being registered at the Traffic Enforcement Centre.

I dont want to have to declare in the future that I have had debts registered somewhere when applying for anything...
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Re: LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (cam
« Reply #77 on: »
@WaltWhite PCN debts do not appear on your credit history nor anywhere else, an Order for Recovery is not a CCJ and they do not have to be declared anywhere at all.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (cam
« Reply #78 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on January 14, 2025, 11:04:15 am
@WaltWhite PCN debts do not appear on your credit history nor anywhere else, an Order for Recovery is not a CCJ and they do not have to be declared anywhere at all.

Thank you @cp8759 that is reassuring. Most appreciated.
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Re: LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (cam
« Reply #79 on: »
Quote from: WaltWhite on January 14, 2025, 02:25:38 pm
Quote from: cp8759 on January 14, 2025, 11:04:15 am
@WaltWhite PCN debts do not appear on your credit history nor anywhere else, an Order for Recovery is not a CCJ and they do not have to be declared anywhere at all.

Thank you @cp8759 that is reassuring. Most appreciated.
The legal process was deliberately set up to avoid the county courts. That's why there is the Traffic Enforcement Centre. It is a form of county court, but with no courtrooms, and no judges too. Judges only become involved with reviews of TEC decisions. Of course this hasn't stopped councils intimidating people by putting 'county court' on their enforcement documents.
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Re: LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (cam
« Reply #80 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on January 14, 2025, 02:47:59 pm
Quote from: WaltWhite on January 14, 2025, 02:25:38 pm
Quote from: cp8759 on January 14, 2025, 11:04:15 am
@WaltWhite PCN debts do not appear on your credit history nor anywhere else, an Order for Recovery is not a CCJ and they do not have to be declared anywhere at all.

Thank you @cp8759 that is reassuring. Most appreciated.
The legal process was deliberately set up to avoid the county courts. That's why there is the Traffic Enforcement Centre. It is a form of county court, but with no courtrooms, and no judges too. Judges only become involved with reviews of TEC decisions. Of course this hasn't stopped councils intimidating people by putting 'county court' on their enforcement documents.

Thanks. What about this 'if the order of recovery is not complied with a warrant will be issued by the county court and bailiff action will commence'. I dont want bailiffs knocking on my door. Im just aware of how slow this complaints process is and that this is running along side at the same time....
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Re: LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (cam
« Reply #81 on: »
In practice even if an OfR is issued, a warrant would not be granted for at least 35 days, so you'll have the stage 2 response before that happens.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (cam
« Reply #82 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on January 14, 2025, 03:42:22 pm
In practice even if an OfR is issued, a warrant would not be granted for at least 35 days, so you'll have the stage 2 response before that happens.

Thanks again both of you for your replies here
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Re: LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (cam
« Reply #83 on: »
@H C Andersen has won a 7 day posting holiday, party for contempt of admin, partly because we should not be telling someone to follow the council's incorrect advice, and partly because such an approach would fail in any event: if a ground 2 statutory declaration were made then upon referral to the tribunal it would not be possible to substantiate the statutory declaration, so the result would be a direction to pay.

In these circumstances there are only two courses of action that can actually lead to cancellation of the PCN: either bring a judicial review in the High Court for failing to follow the statutory process (which would cost thousands, where the outcome would be uncertain at best and where even an uncontested successful JR would still cost over £1,000 in court fees alone), or via the formal complaints process which if need be can be escalated to the Local Government Ombudsman and which costs nothing at all.

In practice the only sensible advice in this scenario is to go down the formal complaints route, but inducing someone to make a false statutory declaration is really not on.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2025, 10:28:26 pm by cp8759 »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (cam
« Reply #84 on: »
I have received this response to my Stage 2 complaint. I sent me complaint in yesterday and received this at 9.03 am today:

Date: 15 January 2025
 
Dear Mr
 
Thank you for your recent letter dated requesting escalation of your complaint to Stage 2 of the Complaints Procedure.
 
I am very sorry to hear that you are not happy with the reply you received from Gurpreet Kohli concerning the points raised in your original complaint.
 
I am writing to give you our response to your complaint received on 14 January 2025.

The contravention took place on 4th November 2024, for entering a pedestrian zone.   We contacted the DVLA and obtained the name and address of the registered keeper on on the 13th November 2024. 

 
 
The PCN was then issued on 13th November 2024, and printed on 14th November 2024.  You have 14 days from the date of 14th November to pay the reduced amount or 28 days from the 14th November 2024 to make representation.
 
The following is taken from government website:-Parking fines and penalty charge notices: Challenging a ticket - GOV.UK
 

 
The 28th day to make representation was 12th December 2024, as no payment or representation was received, on the 13th December 2024 a Charger Certificate was issued.
 
As the Charge Certificate was issued on the 13th December 2024 you are past the point where a representation can be made, hence why you were unable to make representation online.
 
This is our final response to your complaint/ appeal. You may now complain to the Local Government and Social Care Ombudsman. The Ombudsman is not a further appeal. It looks at whether public bodies have followed the right steps when taking action or reaching a decision.
The Ombudsman decides whether it can and should investigate complaints. For example, the Ombudsman may decide not to investigate your complaint if you have not been significantly personally affected by the issue you are raising. You can find out more information about what complaints the Ombudsman may consider on its website.

If you wish to raise your complaint with the Ombudsman you can find out more information about how to do so below:

Website:  https://www.lgo.org.uk/how-to-complain

Telephone: 0300 061 0614
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Re: LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (cam
« Reply #85 on: »
It seems a complaint to the LGO is required, this will be far easier if I do it for you, so I'm going to drop you a PM.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (cam
« Reply #86 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on January 16, 2025, 10:27:41 pm
It seems a complaint to the LGO is required, this will be far easier if I do it for you, so I'm going to drop you a PM.

Thank you @cp8759
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Re: LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (cam
« Reply #87 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on January 16, 2025, 10:27:41 pm
It seems a complaint to the LGO is required, this will be far easier if I do it for you, so I'm going to drop you a PM.

Received today

Received today....


« Last Edit: January 14, 2026, 10:41:07 pm by cp8759 »
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Re: LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (cam
« Reply #88 on: »
Quote from: H C Andersen on February 03, 2025, 04:21:15 pm
The facts according to you are that you sent representations.
No, the facts are that WaltWhite was unable to submit representations in the form and manner stated on the PCN, because the website prevented this. That is quite different from saying that representations were in fact made.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (cam
« Reply #89 on: »
@WaltWhite please email me unredacted copies of those and I'll forward them to the LGO.
Logged
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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