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Lambeth PCN - Prohibition of certain types of vehicleCode 52 - Lingham Street Conflicting Signage

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#16
Thanks - I’ve incorporated the feedback into the below note, would appreciate any feedback before submitting today.

PCN references: LJ38789898 and LJ38738803139

Ground of representation: The alleged contravention did not occur

I was driving north-west along Lingham Street towards Clapham Road, having turned right into Lingham Street from Stockwell Green.

At the entrance to Lingham Street, the prescribed Pedestrian and Cycle Zone signs state that the restriction operates Monday–Friday, 08:15–09:15 and 14:45–15:45. I entered outside those restricted hours. The signage therefore objectively indicated to me that the prohibition was not then in force and that I could lawfully proceed along Lingham Street.

However, after I had already committed to Lingham Street and travelled approximately 100 metres along it, I encountered a new and materially different restriction: a 24-hour Motor Vehicles Prohibited restriction.

There was no advance warning at the entrance to Lingham Street that, despite the part-time restriction displayed there, motorists would encounter a separate 24/7 prohibition further along the same road. Nor was there an alternative road or exit available before reaching the second restriction. By the time those signs became apparent, the only apparent means of avoiding passing them would have been to stop in the carriageway and perform a U-turn.

I submit that this arrangement does not adequately convey the restriction to a motorist. A driver is expressly presented with a part-time prohibition on entering Lingham Street and, having lawfully entered outside its hours of operation, is subsequently confronted without adequate advance warning by a continuous 24/7 prohibition on the same road.

The Council’s camera subsequently records my vehicle exiting the restricted section. However, the issue is not simply whether my vehicle passed the later signs, but whether the restriction was adequately and clearly conveyed to a motorist before the motorist had committed to the route.

In these circumstances, I submit that the signage was insufficient to adequately convey the restriction and therefore that the alleged contravention did not occur.

I have received two PCNs — LJ38789898 and LJ38738803139 — for the same alleged contravention at this location on separate occasions. Both journeys occurred in materially identical circumstances and arose from precisely the same signage arrangement.

I therefore ask the Council to consider these representations in respect of both PCNs. If the Council accepts that the restriction was not adequately conveyed in respect of one journey, the same issue necessarily applies to the other.

For these reasons, I respectfully request that both PCNs, LJ38789898 and LJ38738803139, be cancelled.
#17
Thanks, I've now had both my initial appeals rejected with the below details. Do I have a strong case to make an appeal and risk double jeopardy against two PCN for the same violation as above?

https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/022JLGUrOcWL189EGUBjdO28A#Our_Response_to_you
https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/046jERRnKZFmvDSW-H8C9akHQ#Our_Response_to_you_(1)

Is there anything that I should change with my formal appeal letter?

Thanks!

Last Edit: September 12, 2026, 05:10:03 pm by pred02
#18
Pl stop transcribing, your wrists must be shot with all that typing.

Post the docs themselves. If uncertain how, read the top of the Forum main page: READ THIS FIRST...

You have made formal reps, so the next stage is to appeal or pay.

I can't work out what they've said in their response because the format makes this very difficult, hence the need to post actual docs with whose format we're familiar.

#19
Pl stop transcribing, your wrists must be shot with all that typing.

Post the docs themselves. If uncertain how, read the top of the Forum main page: READ THIS FIRST...

You have made formal reps, so the next stage is to appeal or pay.

I can't work out what they've said in their response because the format makes this very difficult, hence the need to post actual docs with whose format we're familiar.

I am sorry about that. I've included the document. Please let me know if I should change anything with the formal appeal.

https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/022JLGUrOcWL189EGUBjdO28A#Our_Response_to_you
https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/046jERRnKZFmvDSW-H8C9akHQ#Our_Response_to_you_(1)

Thank you.
#20
Unless sent by email, deemed date of service of NOR is 15th September so keep an eye on the discount as on the website.
@ALL MEMBERS

I HAVE A HIGH COURT CASE RE JUDICIAL REVIEW BUT WILL DO MY BEST TO ADVISE AND TAKE ON CASES IF AT ALL POSSIBLE.

If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
#21
Unless sent by email, deemed date of service of NOR is 15th September so keep an eye on the discount as on the website.

I received the two rejections by e-mail last week with the links above.  The centre of their argument is that there is adequate notification from Stockwell Garden. I do not recall the sign for anything beyond the school hour restrictions. As this is a new LTN and Google Maps images are a year old they may not show up. The video I took before starts at a turn to Lingham Street not further down from Stockwell Gardens.

I will get this information but would be good to understand if my case is strong for appeal - as there are two identical PCN its quite double jeopardy 320 pounds.

Thank you
#23
#24
I went back to take a video of the approach to Lingham Street from Stockwell Gardens. If you see the video, there is a small advance warning sign. I am not sure what my chances are off the appeal now.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/04cmJy2NHXFpux2YwWUut2LeQ

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0f8s1E7HBJvFqZPa0ISVvm01Q
Last Edit: September 15, 2026, 12:22:03 am by pred02
#25
Can we  forget about turning right into Lingham, IMO it is not central to your argument.

You were driving along an unrestricted road and then WITHOUT WARNING faced with a No Motor Vehicles prohibition without any means of avoiding.

Yes, there's a background to the unrestricted road and the misleading nature of its proximity to the NMV prohibition - we're not talking about  miles, you're looking at 100m or so. Yes, there's a bespoke sign in Southwark Gardens whose writing is unreadable(I had to zoom in to your photo) but this would be taken to apply to the right turn, not the next-but-one restriction.

#26
Thanks everyone for the advice so far.

I’m now at the point where I need to decide whether to pay the discounted penalties or take this further, so I’d really appreciate a view on the strength of the case.

Based on the signage, the route I took and Lambeth’s response, do you think I have a **reasonably strong case at tribunal**, or is this more of a marginal argument where the sensible option would be to pay the discount?

I have two PCNs, so the financial risk of taking both further is obviously higher. I’m not looking for a guarantee — just your assessment of whether there is a solid appeal point here that an adjudicator is realistically likely to accept.

Thanks again.
#27
What does the website say re payments and dates?
@ALL MEMBERS

I HAVE A HIGH COURT CASE RE JUDICIAL REVIEW BUT WILL DO MY BEST TO ADVISE AND TAKE ON CASES IF AT ALL POSSIBLE.

If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
#28
What does the website say re payments and dates?

Here is what it says on the website - Sept 30th is date for reduced fare.

https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/0475E9YVnoZdhmRnCDthX_Gpw
https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/060BuJILlemahazWvoULAO7LQ

Is there a technical issue with the ticket? I’ve asked FOI from Lambeth to see when the no right turn advance warning sign has been installed, I do not recall seeing it but it is there.

Thank you
#29
Hi,
As I did not receive a response, I went back to the Lambeth portal today intending to settle the PCN at the discounted rate.
Last week, I specifically logged into the portal to check the payment deadline. The portal stated that the amount outstanding was £80 and that payment should be made by 30 September 2026. I took a screenshot of this at the time, which I have attached.
However, when I logged in today, 30 September, to make the payment, the portal was showing that the full £160 amount is now due.
I am therefore very confused about what has happened. I relied on the information displayed on Lambeth’s own portal, which clearly stated that £80 could be paid by 30 September.
I had intended to settle the matter today at the discounted rate, but the system is no longer allowing me to do so.
Given that the discount has apparently been removed despite the stated deadline not having passed, I am now concerned that I have little option other than to proceed to tribunal.
Please can someone urgently advise what is going on and whether the £80 discounted amount can be reinstated so that I can settle the PCN as I had intended?
Thanks,


https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/0a20-p-8d4NLMkI2Wv4va-XMQ
https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/0ecAXiwfkln-s62Gsun_RCcbA
#30
Can't access your images, it requires a download.

The NOR was dated Fri. 11 Sept. therefore deemed served Tues. 15th. 'You have 14 days from the date of this letter being served to do this[to pay the discounted rate of £80] therefore according to the NOR the latest date was 29 Sept, not 30th.

There is no magic wand to force them to accept the discount now, IMO the only procedural route open to you is to go to tribunal. You would add 'penalty exceeded the amount applicable....circumstances of the case' as one of your grounds.

Objectively, what evidence do you have that you actually tried to pay £80 by 30 Sept? Not looking at web pages, but actually going to their payment portal and screenshotting this demand. Perhaps your screenshots would show this. Until we see these, it's difficult to know what weight the adjudicator would place on their website as against the NOR. Others are more au fait with these issues.