Author Topic: Lambeth, Code 37j failing to give way to oncoming vehicles, Salter's Hill  (Read 1117 times)

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Hello all, I hope you're well.

I received a moving traffic PCN last December 2024 [copy of PCN shown below].






I went online to view the images and CCTV footage but they had only posted the images that were in the letter, no CCTV footage was available. On the 07/01/2025 I emailed the council requesting the CCTV footage [copy of email shown below]:



In the meantime I did not respond to the PCN or make representations. I gave birth to my 4th child on the 13th of Jan 2025, so I've just been quite busy tbh.

I heard nothing from them until the 05/03/25; they emailed and posted the following letter to me [copy of letter below].














In the letter it says that I can view the CCTV footage online, but the portal is still only showing the still images and no CCTV footage has been uploaded.

The letter says that I had challenged this claim, and that my representations were rejected for the reasons given in the Notice of Rejection dated 05/03/25. Is it referring to the letter received above? I didn't make any representations. I only emailed them asking for CCTV footage.

What are my next steps, as I am now a bit confused.

Many thanks in advance for your time.
T
« Last Edit: March 18, 2025, 03:38:41 pm by Terri99 »

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On the contravention, your next step is probably to pay the £65 discount as I can't see an adjudicator allowing an appeal although technically I don't think it is contravention as you went through the give way line just before the incoming car had got to the speed bump and before it had got to it's own zone of priority. But it doesn't look good.

There may be something with Lambeth's process.




It may well be that the OP took all the pictures on their website as photos, but one was actually the video which runs if you click on it.

Hi @Incandescent,

I happen to have a screenshot of the Lambeth Portal when I emailed them [shown below], it didn't have the video at the time.

But it has indeed been added since then, you're right I didn't recognise it as a video, I mis-took it for a photo.





Hi @stamfordman,
why wouldn't the adjudicator allow an appeal? I wasn't able to submit a defence to the council as I didn't have enough evidence/proof of a contravention at the time?
« Last Edit: March 18, 2025, 05:55:18 pm by Terri99 »

OP, is the vehicle a taxi?

No it's my own private vehicle.

What we need is a Stoppable version of the video on here, so we can freeze it at the point you pass the 'give-way' marking. I have to say, it doesn't look good at the moment, but the crafty telescoping the council use to "prove" a contravention has fooled rather too many adjudicators.

OP, thanks. I was just thinking of the issue of who is the registered keeper, but it must be you.


Having now looked at the latest video, I have to say I think the OP doesn't have a strong case.

Having now looked at the latest video, I have to say I think the OP doesn't have a strong case.
Their website threats and incorrect dates will be the main thrust.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

@stamfordman is suggesting I just pay the £65

@Hippocrates if I've understood them properly, is suggesting I could challenge but on procedural technicalities..

Any third/other opinions?

Thank you

My last case won:

ETA Register of Appeals
Register kept under Regulation 20 of the Road Traffic (Parking Adjudicators) (London) Regulations 1993, as amended and Regulation 17 of the Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022.
Case Details
Case reference   2250001028
Appellant   Imran Ali
Authority   London Borough of Lambeth
VRM   LR66KNG
PCN Details
PCN   LJ31339656
Contravention date   23 Oct 2024
Contravention time   21:10:00
Contravention location   Kennington Oval
Penalty amount   GBP 130.00
Contravention   Fail comply prohibition on certain types vehicle
Referral date   -
Decision Date   17 Feb 2025
Adjudicator   Cordelia Fantinic
Appeal decision   Appeal allowed
Direction   
cancel the Penalty Charge Notice.

Reasons   
1. Phillip Morgan attended in person as the Appellant’s Authorised Representative. The Authority did not attend and had not been expected to. Mr Morgan confirmed receipt of the Authority's evidence pack.

2. In his written representations, the Appellant raised a collateral challenge that the information on the Authority's website set out the wrong date for when the penalty charge would increase from the reduced charge to the full penalty charge. The Authority did not address this submission in its Notice of Rejection (NoR) and only referred to the signage.

3. In Mr Morgan's written submissions to the Tribunal, he submits that the NoR fails to consider the representations made and that the Authority's "online threats" are wrong in date details and unacceptable as found by several Adjudicators. Mr Morgan has provided three Adjudicator decisions with his representations, including one of my own. An Adjudicator is not bound by a decision of any other Adjudicator, including their own decisions, although they can be persuasive.

4. Mr Morgan has provided four screenshots from the Authority's portal:

(a) On 29 November 2024, it stated in a yellow box: "The amount outstanding on the Charge Notice will increased to £130.00 on Mon 2 Dec 2024. Please pay £65.00 now". The issue date is 23 October, which is incorrect, as that is the date of the alleged contravention - the date of issue was when the PCN was sent, on 5 November 2024.

(b) On 7 and 16 February, it stated in a red box: "The amount outstanding on the Charge Notice will increased to £195.00 very soon. Please pay £130.00 now."


Mr Morgan told me that the Appellant was caused confusion by this, and submits that the Authority should not issue threats of this kind, or seek money that is not yet due, particularly when there is an appeal at the Tribunal.

5. The NoR was issued on 24 December 2024, and deemed served on 30 December (due to the bank holidays). The 28 day deadline by which the Appellant could pay the penalty charge, or appeal to the Tribunal was 26 January 2025. After this date, the Authority would be entitled to issue a Charge Certificate, increasing the penalty charge by 50% to £195, only if the Appellant had not appealed to the Tribunal or paid the penalty charge.


6. In this case, the Tribunal's records show that the Appellant filed his appeal in-time on 2 January 2025. The Authority was notified the following day on 3 January 2025. It is
therefore unclear why, and inaccurate for, the website to contain a statement informing the
Appellant on 7 and 16 February that the penalty charge "will" increase to £195 "very soon". The Authority was not entitled to issue a Charge Certificate after 3 January, as it was on
notice that an appeal had been lodged.


7. I accept the evidence provided by Mr Morgan as accurately showing the messages
displayed in relation to the Appellant's appeal on the Authority's portal

8. Mr Morgan's submissions were filed on 7 February. The Authority was notified that further evidence had been added. On 10 February, the Authority filed further evidence, however, it has not addressed Mr Morgan's submissions.


9. An Adjudicator is not bound by a decision of another Adjudicator, although it may be
persuasive. In this case, I agree with the reasoning of Adjudicator Houghton in 2240362722
and I adopt it in my decision. Adjudicator Houghton said:


"The motorist is entitled to have clear and correct information from a Council as to what is
required to be paid and when; and in my judgement these errors are serious enough for the
Appeal to be allowed on the basis of a collateral challenge. In addition, I agree with the
decision of my learned colleague Mr Greenslade in the case cited by the Appellant,
2240178326 Maurice Fisher v London Borough of Hackney, in which he said that "it is not
open to the Enforcement Authority to seek any sum beyond the prescribed amount or any
amount at all whilst an appellant is appealing to the Environment and Traffic Adjudicator."


10. For the reasons set out above, this appeal is therefore allowed.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Thank you @Hippocrates for the last post.

Are you suggesting that I appeal to the Environment & Traffic Adjudicators on similar grounds to the case detailed in your post?

If so, can I draft an outline of the appeal here to get your feedback.

There are still a couple of details that I'm not sure what to do with.

I didn't submit an appeal, and I don't seem to have recieved an official Notice of Rejection. Does this matter? Should I go to the Adjudicators anyway?

@Terri99 I will PM you my details and take this case on for you. I will file the appeal too. Any Q,s please speak/write with me direct.

Doing another member's case and they are threatening to increase the price to £195 two months before the appeal is due to be heard!! ;D
« Last Edit: March 21, 2025, 10:30:32 am by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r