3. Lambeth 52M Windmill Drive
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Lambeth 52M Windmill Drive
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Lambeth has closed off Windmill Drive to through traffic - it used to be a handy way through from east to west side of Clapham Common but of course to Lambeth it was a "rat run" which meant that it was far preferable to close it off and force the traffic onto the main roads that bound the Common making them slower, more congested and of course emitting more nasty stuff. Logic never was Lambeth's strong point.

I rode my motorbike down there recently to check it out. I looked around carefully for camera enforcement but couldn't spot any. Nor was there any signage warning of camera enforcement. It seems I missed a camera which captured me. Any grounds for appeal here? Lack of camera warning signs?

Here are scans from the PCN

https://imgur.com/a/x2BY3RQ
« Last Edit: June 01, 2025, 10:03:28 pm by Chaseman »
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Re: Lambeth 52M Windmill Drive
« Reply #1 on: »
Here is an image from GSV but it dates from before the blocking off of Windmill Drive so of limited use

https://www.instantstreetview.com/@51.456718,-0.146299,232.96h,-7.31p,0.94z,3AYXZEekq_TqNBZqOltlvQ
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Re: Lambeth 52M Windmill Drive
« Reply #2 on: »
There is no legal requirement for camera enforcement signs. Your thread suggests that you chanced your arm and lost !

There may be a 'technical' appeal, (at London Tribunals), based on Lambeth mismanagment of the enforcement process. These centre on their web pages for paying PCNs, so wait a bit until the experts come on, buut don't miss the deadline for paying or submitting reps on the PCN.
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Re: Lambeth 52M Windmill Drive
« Reply #3 on: »
The PCN shows the following:

A motorcycle passing a pair of 'Motor vehicles prohibited' signs, one situated no more than 2 metres to the rider's left and the other perhaps 4 metres to their right. Both are visible;

An information sign to the effect that the motorist is entering an 'Area in which enforcement cameras are in use' situated immediately under both prohibition signs.


'I looked around carefully for camera enforcement but couldn't spot any.'

Specsavers beckons!

OP, more seriously, we need to know how you approached these very clear signs and whether there is any conceivable reason other that lack of attention to explain what's shown in the PCN.

Have you viewed the video?

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Re: Lambeth 52M Windmill Drive
« Reply #4 on: »
There are camera signs on both posts.

I suppose riding through a restriction is one way of testing enforcement but it could get expensive.

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Re: Lambeth 52M Windmill Drive
« Reply #5 on: »
I stand corrected. There are CCTV warning signs. I was indeed "testing the system" and looked round carefully for cameras. I think I just did not look high enough. Unless anyone comes up with a technical issue as to why the PCN is not valid then I am bang to rights.

This particular road has been a bone of contention between residents and Lambeth for years. Lambeth has wanted to block it off for years and the residents were equally keen to keep it open. Unfortunately it fell foul of the Lambeth mantra which is "find out what people want to do and stop them - or charge them".
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Re: Lambeth 52M Windmill Drive
« Reply #6 on: »
Guess I am going to have to pay this one at a discount unless anyone has any bright ideas....
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Re: Lambeth 52M Windmill Drive
« Reply #7 on: »
Quote from: Chaseman on June 06, 2025, 08:19:50 am
Guess I am going to have to pay this one at a discount unless anyone has any bright ideas....
I do and so should you if you remember the case we won last year.  ;D Back later. Please screenshot the payment status page.
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: Lambeth 52M Windmill Drive
« Reply #8 on: »
Hippocrates

Here it is

https://pcnevidence.lambeth.gov.uk/pcnonline/step2.php

Sorry, don't seem to be able to screenshot and paste. Just enter PCN LJ32850351 and VRN KY15HXG

PCN issued 29 May so the 14 days is up by my reckoning on 11 June. Confusingly the screenshot says the penalty will increase to £160 on 17 June - which is 20 days after date of PCN??

I know what you are referring to - adjudicator was unpersuaded by the argument that the new traffic order had not been properly brought into being. Are we going for incorrect procedure on the website - which is looking a bit dodgy re dates admittedly?

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Re: Lambeth 52M Windmill Drive
« Reply #9 on: »
I recently won a 52M with Lambeth thanks to Hippocrates. Make sure your screenshot the current payment demand page.

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/pcn-52m-eastmearn-road-lambeth-5206/msg62370/#msg62370

Even when I was at the appeal stage, they were still threatening to raise the penalty! It was an easy win....
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Re: Lambeth 52M Windmill Drive
« Reply #10 on: »
Chaseman knows the score.  I will remind him as he is a fellow Musketeer!
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: Lambeth 52M Windmill Drive
« Reply #11 on: »
https://imgur.com/a/hwfZlp2

Managed to do it on Imgur
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Re: Lambeth 52M Windmill Drive
« Reply #12 on: »
@Chaseman serendipity. Let's talk via phone and/or email. Really is serendipity as off to Kos again!
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: Lambeth 52M Windmill Drive
« Reply #13 on: »
Okay. I will deal with this one from now on.

Dear Lambeth

The left hand sign is covered by foliage. Therefore, you have not carried  discharged your duties under regulation 18(1)(b) of The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996. And so it follows that the alleged contravention did not occur.

Furthermore, I make these collateral challenges:

(i) Your website only allows me to choose one ground whereas the legislation stipulates one or other grounds.

(ii) I adopt the reasoning in Adam Jones v Havering Case reference 2190374806 in terms of making a collateral challenge in lieu of procedural impropriety and state that your website also misstates crucial information as to when the price increases and when.

Considering the above, please cancel the PCN.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2025, 09:14:22 pm by Hippocrates »
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: Lambeth 52M Windmill Drive
« Reply #14 on: »
I have been back on the Lambeth website now that my appeal has been entered. Here it is:

https://imgur.com/a/xww7pMm

Note "Your PCN is at discount stage. PCN process information." First they are conceding that the PCN is at the discount stage, which can only be the case if they are accepting that the PCN has been placed on hold while an appeal is under way. It has already exceeded the 14 days from issue. But if an appeal is under way, why do they say “The amount outstanding….will increase to £160 very soon”? This would only be the case if they have already decided that the appeal would fail. Fettered discretion? Notwithstanding that, why would I pay £80 now if I have not yet heard the result of my appeal? This is all heading the same way as the one I won re the Rectory Grove bridge i.e. the website is not in synch with the realities of the PCN appeal process.

This one:

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/motorbike-52m-pcn-lambeth/msg31141/#msg31141
« Last Edit: June 26, 2025, 08:36:51 pm by Chaseman »
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