3. Lambeth - 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain tyoes of vehicles - New Park Road (D)
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mrmustard

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Re: Lambeth - 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain tyoes of vehicles - New Park Road (D)
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2024, 07:16:39 pm »
It does not say that, it says 'representation'. Yes, do it
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Hippocrates

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Re: Lambeth - 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain tyoes of vehicles - New Park Road (D)
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2024, 02:02:01 pm »
The amount outstanding on the Charge Notice will increase to £130.00 on Mon, 28 Oct 2024. Please pay £65.00 now.
We received your representation on Mon, 14 Oct 2024 and we will reply in due course. You do not need to make representations again.
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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
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ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε

Hippocrates

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Re: Lambeth - 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain tyoes of vehicles - New Park Road (D)
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2024, 02:03:48 pm »
Quote from: mrmustard on October 14, 2024, 07:12:58 pm
You need to make representations now or the pcn value can increase. The council reject nearly everything, good and bad.
The amount outstanding on the Charge Notice will increase to £130.00 on Mon, 28 Oct 2024. Please pay £65.00 now.
We received your representation on Mon, 14 Oct 2024 and we will reply in due course. You do not need to make representations again.


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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε

stevec

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Re: Lambeth - 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain tyoes of vehicles - New Park Road (D)
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2024, 02:58:25 pm »
I made my representations yesterday evening, using both points advised by @mrmustard.
When I submitted it, a message was displayed saying "Unfortunately, we have been unable to send a copy of your challenge by email. Your challenge has been logged and will be processed by one of our officers promptly".

Not sure why they were unable to send an email but I assume I'll receive a response by post. I shall update this thread here when I do.

Thanks both to @mrmustard and @Hippocrates for your help so far!
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stevec

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Re: Lambeth - 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain tyoes of vehicles - New Park Road (D)
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2024, 06:32:09 pm »
I received the following response today from Lambeth Council via post. As you suspected @mrmustard, they have rejected the grounds of inadequate signage.

Regarding the point of their right to transfer liability, they actually start the letter by saying they are unable to consider a representation from a third party, given I am effectively unknown to them as the registered keeper of the car will be the leasing company.

They say they have put the case on hold for 14 days to allow the registered keeper to make the representations on my behalf or make the discount payment of £65.
Given the leasing company will not do that; as far as they're concerned, liability for any parking fines are my responsibility under the leasing contract; what should my next step be?



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mrmustard

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Re: Lambeth - 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain tyoes of vehicles - New Park Road (D)
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2024, 06:51:43 pm »
Whose name is on the PCN.

Is the same name on the representations?
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stevec

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Re: Lambeth - 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain tyoes of vehicles - New Park Road (D)
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2024, 12:37:35 am »
Actually, no, the name on the PCN is my limited company and the PCN was sent first to the registered office address before it was forwarded to me at my home address. Didn't really think of that when I submitted he representation....

I'm a director of the limited company but the registered keeper is the lease company so I can't submit an representation on their behalf.
However, as the PCN was sent to my limited company, can I resubmit the representation as a director of that company? Or will that not help my argument that the PCN should not have been transferred to me?
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mrmustard

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Re: Lambeth - 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain tyoes of vehicles - New Park Road (D)
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2024, 06:58:42 am »
Yes, only the Limited company can make a representation so do it as  Director on behalf of the company. Start by stating ' this a representation by ....Ltd' and the same as before.
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I help you pro bono (for free). I only ask that a donation is made to the North London Hospice if you can afford it and if you win. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless.

H C Andersen

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Re: Lambeth - 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain tyoes of vehicles - New Park Road (D)
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2024, 10:23:22 am »
WAIT!

However, as the PCN was sent to my limited company,....

..yes, but by who?

There are only 2 scenarios which could fit here IMO:

1. The PCN is addressed to a corporate body and you made reps in your own name without specifying your position and authority to make reps on the company's behalf, or

2. The PCN is addressed to the registered keeper (lease company) which has then forwarded to you, perhaps with a covering letter??

Which?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2024, 12:37:51 pm by H C Andersen »
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stevec

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Re: Lambeth - 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain tyoes of vehicles - New Park Road (D)
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2024, 11:58:46 am »
Apologies for not being clear in my last post.

It's scenario 1; the PCN was addressed to my LLC and yes, I made the representation without specifying my position and authority at the company.

So should I resubmit the same representation as before but stating I am representing the LLC in my capacity as director?

Is it still worth submitting the 'signage not clear' grounds, given they have already rejected that?
Or should I just go with the "council did not have the right to transfer liability" grounds?
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mrmustard

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Re: Lambeth - 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain tyoes of vehicles - New Park Road (D)
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2024, 05:32:23 pm »
We have already considered what the representation should be and there is no need to change our mind now. Just get the representation in using the LLP name.
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I help you pro bono (for free). I only ask that a donation is made to the North London Hospice if you can afford it and if you win. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless.

stevec

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Re: Lambeth - 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain tyoes of vehicles - New Park Road (D)
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2024, 05:18:49 pm »
I've now received the latest response from Lambeth Council.
As they did last time, they have rejected the grounds of the signage not being clear, which was to be expected.
However, they make no reference at all to the grounds of their not having the right to transfer liability.

Do I submit a third appeal and draw their attention specifically to those grounds?


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Hippocrates

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Re: Lambeth - 52 m Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain tyoes of vehicles - New Park Road (D)
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2024, 08:21:14 pm »
@mrmustard Please sort this out.
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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε
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