Free Traffic Legal Advice

Hi,

I received a PCN on Tuesday from Kingston-upon-Thames for alleged parking contravention:
"47j Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand (camera enforcement)"
Location: VICTORIA ROAD
Date of alleged Contravention: 30/01/2025 Time 17:55
Date of notice 10/02/2025

PCN and other pictures https://imgur.com/a/29u0kw5

QT10352963
RE18TPV

Portal

This appears to be the same as the recent thread:
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/stopping-at-bus-stop-pcn-victoria-road-surbiton/msg38774/?topicseen#msg38774
where @sbarclay19 managed to successfully appeal, with the help of @Hippocrates. (Well done!!!)
outcome: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qexr8OS0A75Tlc1XX_Oz_4UdhyYJQjLB/view - appeal allowed on 03 Feb 2025

It looks like the main grounds of appeal were:
- the failure to provide a certificate of approval of the device used.
- that the upright sign is inadequate
- (the Notice of Rejection refers to the wrong legislation)
- Appellant’s Authorised Representative commented that the only evidence of signage was provided by the Appellant and the Authority has not provided any.
- Appellant’s Authorised Representative provided screenshots of the Authority's portal, which show "no location details found"
regarding the location of the alleged contravention (and that there are four bus stops on Victoria Road, and the Authority had not provided sufficient detail of the location in the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).)

- The Appellant told me that he stopped unexpectedly to let his wife out of the vehicle and at the time that he stopped he did not identify any signage that informed him that he could not stop.
- the Appellant asked that the Authority provide the approval certificate for the device used to capture the alleged contravention. "no evidence before me of a camera approval certification in this case, and I find that the Authority was not entitled to issue a PCN."


In my case, a passenger opened the door and got into the car, which took about 5 seconds, before the car continued moving.

* The sign is bleached white, so the wrong colour, and is totally missing the clearway 'no stopping' symbol.
* The sign is not visible when approaching by car, and when alongside it it is too high to view from the car
* In the portal the evidence is also showing "No location details found" by each picture and video.

* The road markings for the bus stop is severely degraded. There is no continuous thick yellow clearway line, and is missing for a large part due to the road resurfacing.
* Same ambiguous location, only stating 'VICTORIA ROAD' but there are 4 bus stops on that road.
* Many of the same justifications as above, apart from where the appelant refers to inadequate response (I've not submitted an appeal so far)
*

ChatGPT suggests:
"The missing "No Stopping" symbol significantly strengthens your case because:

TSRGD 2016 Compliance Failure
Legally enforceable bus stop clearway signs must include the "No Stopping" symbol as per Schedule 4, Part 4 of Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions (TSRGD) 2016.
The sign at this location does not display this legally required symbol, making the restriction unclear and potentially unenforceable.
Ambiguous or Misleading Restriction
Without the "No Stopping" symbol, the sign does not comply with standard road signage regulations.
The wording alone may not provide sufficient clarity to motorists, as the official "No Stopping" format requires the clearway symbol to be present.
Case Precedent for Signage Issues Leading to PCN Cancellation
Adjudicators at London Tribunals (Traffic Adjudicators) have ruled in the past that missing mandatory signage elements invalidate restrictions, as enforcement relies on proper and legal signage.
If a restriction is not properly signed, it cannot be legally enforced."

Could anyone advise on the best approach for a representation/challenge please? Should I use the same key points @sbarclay19 used with reference to the precedent of successful appeal only last week (though some parts of the appeal are based on the council response, which doesn't apply to me currently).

@sbarclay19 / @Hippocrates - do you have your appeal information available please?

Or is the inadequate signage (white rather than yellow), missing 'no stopping symbol' on the signage, and incomplee clearway yellow line enough?

PCN and other pictures https://imgur.com/a/29u0kw5
Google Streeview - https://maps.app.goo.gl/hyCevpJCmcLTRr9e8

Bus stop clearway info (incomplete and partially missing in my case, due to road resuracing and degraded road markings) - https://council.lancashire.gov.uk/documents/s244280/Appendix%20B.pdf

Clearway No stopping sign (missing in this case) - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/know-your-traffic-signs/on-street-parking-control-signs-and-road-markings#:~:text=The%20red%20cross%20means%20no,'%20sign%20at%20bus%20stops).

What the sign should look like -

Thank you for any help you can provide!

@cp8759 and @John U.K. - Is it ok to provide both the PCN and Vehicle reg number? That would allow enough someone to log into the portal as me so doesn't seem secure? Or can someone PM me if they need to see anything and I'll send it on, or I can send on screengrabs or any info here?

Thank you!

p.s Thanks for the info on the original thread to make this new thread, quite right and your advice appreciated

Maybe if somebody other than yourself logs onto the portal they'll pay your PCN for you !  There is no possible harm from giving us your reg number and PCN number. Only names and addresses should be redacted from postal PCNs, they aren't present on PCNs served at the roadside.

@spumphrey I am more than happy to deal with this one for you!

In strategic terms, we need to box clever as it were and keep some juicy/salient parts for later. Happy to share the full appeal submissions privately by e mail. Meanwhile, I would take screenshots of their website grounds and the PCN view status which I showed the Adjudicator.

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg57962/#msg57962

I will draft later.

I will PM you my details. They really should  not be enforcing this bus stop at all. I have been a thorn in their side for at least 15 years.