Author Topic: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road  (Read 3220 times)

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Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #15 on: »
it has alread been explained to you that DYLs mean no parking at any time so you should not have been on them. its also been explained that being opposite the underground is totally irrelevant apart from the fact that may be exactly why the DYLs have been put there. to stop people doing exactly what you did.
Quote from: andy_foster
Mick, you are a very, very bad man

Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #16 on: »
 
it has alread been explained to you that DYLs mean no parking at any time so you should not have been on them. its also been explained that being opposite the underground is totally irrelevant apart from the fact that may be exactly why the DYLs have been put there. to stop people doing exactly what you did.

Thank you Mick. But the argument would be that there were restriction hours signage and the council has to remove those signs permanently. So that it is clear and the drivers won't think of parking there at all.

Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #17 on: »
You could attempt to argue that the signage was confusing. That timeplate shouldn't be there.

If you had been parked on the road that might have a chance (but in that case you'd have got a pcn for parking on the double yellow).

You also need to explain why you parked on the pavement (which is what the PCN is for). The signs, very close to where you parked were explicit that it was in marked bays.


Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #18 on: »
What will be the grounds even if the the order has been produced.
If the order disapplies the footway parking ban from the entire road, which is the most common scenario, then the ground would be that the contravention did not occur. See for instance the decision in Jade Honeywood v London Borough of Redbridge (2230195409, 22 May 2023) and Robert Dempsey v London Borough of Hounslow (2230143824, 30 March 2023), both cases of mine.

The double yellow lines and the upright sign are utterly irrelevant to the allegation of footway parking, so there's no point in mentioning them.

I suggest you write a draft representation, post it on here for comment and we'll tidy it up for you.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #19 on: »
Dear Sirs,

I would like to appeal the penalty charge served upon me.

The council has allowed parking on both sides of the road just a few meters ahead of where the car was parked. To any layman, it would appear or make sense to follow the line and length of the car parked ahead as the road is as narrow and there is an underground car parking opposite the DYLs, the space is very narrow and the chances of hitting the parked car are high if not parked on the pathway.

 A pathway is where a pedestrian can walk safely and if the safety has been compromised by leaving a very narrow space where the houses are, and the pedestrian footfall is high then it doesn't make sense to allow PCN where there is a lot of space on the footpath just behind the marked spaces where there is a car park just opposite where a car coming from the opposite direction cannot turn.

So technically either the restriction of DYLs should be completely removed (had there been no DYLs restrictions sign, the driver wouldn’t have parked the car and the Penalty wouldn’t have arisen) or the TMO should allow the parking on the curb throughout the road considering there is an underground car park opposite to the DYLs where there are high chances of an accident whilst the car coming from the car park is manoeuvring.
Also, I would like to request for a Traffic Management Order for the road In case of an unsuccessful appeal.

Yours faithfully,

Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #20 on: »
I'm sorry but none of that draft makes any sense to me, for the reasons that have been explained all references to the underground car park and the yellow lines are irrelevant.

I'd go with something much simpler:

Dear London Borough of Hounslow,

In the first instance I would ask you to exercise your discretion to cancel the penalty charge, considering that footway parking is allowed on much of the road.

If you are not willing to cancel the penalty, I would ask that you at least reoffer the discount. I also request a copy of the resolution passed under section 15(4) of the Greater London Council (General Powers) Act 1974 in respect of this road.

Yours faithfully,
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #21 on: »
Much appriciated!

Will post the outcome.

Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #22 on: »
Received a very late (11:40 pm) reply from the council. Please find the screenshot below

https://ibb.co/Mc8vD9b

https://ibb.co/vXN6yK2

Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #23 on: »
Discount has been re-offered.  This may be your best option now, but see what CP8759 thinks as he wrote your reps.

Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #24 on: »
Sure, thank you.

But it is still hard to digest the reasons given by the council about the footpath might get damaged and the blind person or pram might get difficulties to pass. This is more worse further down the road and that's exactly what estounds me  ::) 

Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #25 on: »
OP, are you the registered keeper and are your DVLA details current?

I would respond, thank them for their prompt reply and their reoffer of the discount. However, you are now in a dilemma because the council did not provide a copy of the council resolution under which footway parking in *** is permitted despite this being requested in your challenge. Stress that it is important that you receive this promptly because if, as is possible, this disapplies the London-wide footway ban to the whole street then this would form the basis of your formal representations and would inform any decision whether to pay the discount at this stage.

Wait for others.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2023, 04:38:52 pm by H C Andersen »

Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #26 on: »
Thank you all!

Any more suggestions would be appricated specially from cp8759.

Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #27 on: »
I would definitely wait for the notice to owner, as long as you submit formal representations within 14 days of the date of issue, they will extend the discount anyway, so there's little risk in carrying on.

And long before you get the notice to owner, we should have the footway parking resolution.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #28 on: »
Thank you!

So, just to confirm that the next step is to wait for the NTO and then submit the formal representation with 14 days?


Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #29 on: »
So, just to confirm that the next step is to wait for the NTO and then submit the formal representation with 14 days?
Yes.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order