Author Topic: Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road  (Read 1337 times)

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Re: Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
« Reply #15 on: »
How long does the council have to issue NTO after they have rejected the appeal? or is there any timeframe they are legally abiding to notify the owner?

Re: Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
« Reply #16 on: »
The statutory limit is 6 months, but the Statutory Guidance says this: -

Quote
Issuing the notice to owner
If the penalty charge is not paid the enforcement authority may issue a notice to owner (NtO). The purpose of this is to ensure that the PCN was received by the vehicle owner and to remind the vehicle owner that the payment in full is now due and, if it is not paid within a further 28 days, it may be increased.

The NtO may be issued 28 days after serving the penalty charge, and we expect authorities to send them within 56 days. The ultimate time limit, in exceptional circumstances, is 6 months [footnote 33] from the ‘relevant date’. There should be a very good reason for waiting that long to serve an NtO. The regulations set out the information that the NtO must [footnote 34] give.

Section 87 of the Transport Management Act 2004 stipulates that local authorities must have regard to the information contained in this guidance. So, if they exceed the 56 days, they would be expected to explain why, and an adjudicator could decide their reason given for delay is not reasonable, and is an abuse of process.

Re: Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
« Reply #17 on: »
Thank you!

So it has been 68 days since the date on the PCN. Does this mean if they send out the NTO now the owner can argue why they have take that long and that it is not valid unless they provide a strong reasoning?

Re: Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
« Reply #18 on: »
Much depends on circumstances whether the NtO has been issued unfairly late in the process. On March 26th you posted their rejection of your informal representations against the PCN. So at the moment, I don't think you can use this argument, as it is only about a month and a hlaf since then.

Re: Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
« Reply #19 on: »
OP, the rejection letter seems to have disappeared.

OP, can I check a couple of facts with you while we await the NTO.

Did you leave the car at any time?
What were you doing when the CEO arrived?

The council's duty under the Traffic Management Act is 'to have regard'. If the council's policy is to endeavour to issue within 56 days, then so be it.

No-one can quantify when 'we did our best/staff shortages etc.' crosses the 'exceptional circumstances' threshold.


Re: Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
« Reply #20 on: »
Thanks.

The driver did not leave the car at any time. The warden was waiting pretending that he was a common man looking here and there, and then suddenly started taking the pictures (you can tell from the pictures he has taken that they are very blurred). When the driver got out of the car to speak to him he avoided the conversation and said to write it to the council then they would decide. My other question is, if a similar situation arrives again in the future what could a common man do to stop such behaviour (will calling the police help in this situation?) where they are forcing and abusing the power which is given by the council.

Re: Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
« Reply #21 on: »
My other question is, if a similar situation arrives again in the future what could a common man do to stop such behaviour (will calling the police help in this situation?) where they are forcing and abusing the power which is given by the council.
Basically nothing, the most you could do is ask the officer to make some notes explaining the circumstances. If you discretely film the internation on your phone (i.e. without making it obvious so the CEO isn't aware) and the CEO says he'll make notes and then he doesn't, later down the line you can undermine his credibility and you can also make a complaint would the council would really struggle to dismiss.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
« Reply #22 on: »
Hello,
 
Finally, the Hounslow Council sent the NTO while the driver was away for 6 weeks. Please see below

https://ibb.co/wQhPFL4
https://ibb.co/WWHgGWf

The Council took 140 days from the day of PCN to send the NTO. Is this valid? 

Thank you in advance!

Re: Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
« Reply #23 on: »
What is the PCN number and car reg - you've blanked them.

As it stands you are out of time to make reps as the NTO is dated 26 July and a charge certificate is probably on its way.

Re: Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
« Reply #24 on: »
What is the PCN number and car reg - you've blanked them.

As it stands you are out of time to make reps as the NTO is dated 26 July and a charge certificate is probably on its way.

Thought the PCN and Car reg are confidential info.

Thinking of emailing the council the passport stamp as proof of absence in the country.

Also, what happens when a charge certificate has been issued?

Re: Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
« Reply #25 on: »
I worked it out. There is no need to blank anything but name and address.

A CC is on its way - as it stands you have a reset available to you if you wait for the order for recovery and make a witness statement that you didn't get the NTO but this is in a grey area of legality as it was sent to you and you didn't service your post.

An alternative is to send a grovel to the council now saying you were away and will they accept reps.


Re: Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
« Reply #26 on: »
OP, IMO you have a dilemma.

IMO, there's nothing 'grey' about the law, you were served with the NTO but did not make reps within the permitted period. This denies to you the only grounds on which you could lawfully submit a Witness Statement because the grounds are not conditional or contingent upon your circumstances, IMO they're strict.

But if you did submit a WS there's no mechanism by which this could be challenged by the council and TEC would cancel because they are required to.

So it's down to you.

The alternative would be to submit reps now and ask them to not disregard. But because the ball's in their court, IMO you could hardly show your strongest hand at this stage- the inordinate and inexcusable delay in issuing the NTO(which caused it to be delivered to you right at the start of the summer holidays)- because if they thought it had merit they might disregard (morality not being their strongest suit). You'd have to find other grounds or risk them disregarding.

When did you return from holiday, why away for such an extended period, what evidence do you have etc. etc?

Wait for others.

So, what to do?

Re: Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
« Reply #27 on: »
Thank you all!

The representation has been submitted with the passport stamps as proof of absence in the country. Let's hope for the best.

Re: Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
« Reply #28 on: »
Hello again,

Received a letter from the council (please see the below link).

https://ibb.co/cD6P0Xp
https://ibb.co/zxMMW83

   
They have ignored the NTO's appeal which was sent on 11th Sept as per below:

Dear Sirs,

Please accept my apologies for the late reply as I have not been in
the country since 17th July and only received the NTO yesterday upon
my return. Please see the Passport stamp.

I appeal the PCN for the following reasons:

1) The driver had parked as the child was feeling ill and wanted to
throw up. The driver exited the car to see if her child had thrown up
and to provide some water. In the meantime, the parking attendant
(very trickily whilst looking elsewhere) took the pictures and he was
in such a rush to take the pictures that he had not filled the column
on the PCN where he had to mention the colour of the car. The pictures
he took are very blurred (even the number plate is not clear) showing
the intention and cruelty of the parking warden. The warden did not
want to listen to anything when spoken to. The driver was trying to
converse with the warden but he was in a rush to take pictures of the
car and even though he saw the child sitting in the back he did not
have any courtesy to even listen to the situation. He then quickly
printed the ticket and placed it on the windscreen. The warden then
left the site and the total time taken was only a few minutes.

There is an exemption in section 15(3)(b) of the Greater London
Council (General Powers) Act 1974:

the purpose of saving life or extinguishing a fire or meeting any
other emergency

If a child is ill and vomiting that's enough of an emergency to cause
most drivers to stop and render assistance.


2) Under Section 87 of the Transport Management Act 2004, the local
authorities must issue the NTO within 56 days of the PCN being
received. However, It has been 145 days since the PCN was issued.
Therefore, the NTO is invalid.


3) In addition, The wording of the PCN in terms of the 28 days period
is wrong since it does not comply with Schedule 2 para. 2 @
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/71/schedule/2

(d)that the penalty charge must be paid within the period of 28 days
beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention occurred,

In light of this procedural impropriety please cancel the PCN.



Re: Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
« Reply #29 on: »
Does this need to be posted as a new topic?