Author Topic: High St Romford parked by necessity  (Read 8265 times)

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High St Romford parked by necessity
« on: »
I have, when I need to park in Romford used a large, accessible Car Park as it's convenient but on the date of the PCN I couldn't as the system wouldn't accept my card and the staff couldn't unlock the system. After searching all the places I could use - no luck and needed to eat. I parked outside the cafe I know using my Blue Badge. So as not to cause obstruction I parked in the place shown on the link by the orange rectangle and I know at that time of day traffic is very little.

Can I get out of this or do I have to pay it.

https://i.postimg.cc/fyLgTFXV/pcn-f.png

https://i.postimg.cc/D0QvcSmF/pfnr.png

https://i.postimg.cc/nzjgxNth/Screensho.png

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.578067,0.1797747,43m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MTAyNy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

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Re: High St Romford parked by necessity
« Reply #1 on: »
The PCN puts you on a loading restriction - as you know you can't use your blue badge there.

But post a street level Maps link not an overhead.

You've blanked the PCN details so we can't check the council's evidence if they've got any showing.

Havering does not reoffer the discount on rejection.


Re: High St Romford parked by necessity
« Reply #2 on: »
I wasn't aware of the loading restriction but looking on my dashcam footage there seems to be some tiny 'No Loading' Signs that as a disabled driver it would be dangerous for me to avert my eyes to see.I blocked the details as I I have personal security issues and wish not to take any risks. The council haven't put any pics or PCN details on their "view your PCN details" section just a a section to pay.

The GSV view is really hard to get as I imagine google couldn't get a car down the road.


Re: High St Romford parked by necessity
« Reply #3 on: »
I think you were in a taxi only part of the High Street...

Havering may put the pics up now you've tried to access them but if they don't ask for them.

Without looking at what they have we can't do much other than advise paying the discount to avoid the full penalty.

Re: High St Romford parked by necessity
« Reply #4 on: »
Strangely on the boroughs parking section of the website

https://www.havering.gov.uk/parking-2/parking-tickets-traffic-fines/2

There is only an ability to view a PCN if there is a web code which from my memory is only on PCN's send through the post [cctv ones ?]. I find it strange that this higher tariff one offers no visual evidence.

Is there any requirement for it ?

Almost 7 days and no visual evidence.

Re: High St Romford parked by necessity
« Reply #5 on: »
They may put the pics up or ask for them.

This view suggests you were on double yellow on the right?


Re: High St Romford parked by necessity
« Reply #6 on: »
I requested images as none are available on their website.

I parked on the right side in a section of the road where there used to be a pub. A delivery gate is blocked off now but as can be seen in the Google image I posted the DY lines dip in a bit so I used that part to park to avoid obstructing traffic using my Blue Badge. Due to the way Havering arrange parking it often seems more consideration is given to none disabled drivers as although bays can be found at the back of the shops I have to put my personal safety first and will only park somewhere I am clearly visible to the public. 

Re: High St Romford parked by necessity
« Reply #7 on: »
Your VRM is available 24/7 when your car is on the highway, therefore there's no purpose in withholding it here.

As for the PCN number, this doesn't identify you.

We need both to check their website.

As regards parking legislation, the issue boils down to whether you were parked within the scope of waiting and no loading prohibitions. We need photos. If the website cannot assist, then you'll have to arrange to take some yourself I'm afraid.

As regards: I wasn't aware of the loading restriction but looking on my dashcam footage there seems to be some tiny 'No Loading' Signs that as a disabled driver it would be dangerous for me to avert my eyes to see.

As you know, a driver's obligation is to observe markings and signs, in this case you can park, look and, if restricted, move off without being in contravention: it's not done in real time from the driver's seat.

Re: High St Romford parked by necessity
« Reply #8 on: »
This is where it gets confusing [for me, others may understand it better]


"As you know, a driver's obligation is to observe markings and signs, in this case you can park, look and, if restricted, move off without being in contravention: it's not done in real time from the driver's seat."

Surely To read the signs and verify if it would be an offence to stop / park If I were to park or stop to read them I would have already breached a no stopping / parking sign already so kind of catch 22 ?


Re: High St Romford parked by necessity
« Reply #9 on: »
It wasn't a No Stopping prohibition, it was No Waiting and No Loading.

In both cases these are standard signs with which any BB holder should be familiar.

Re: High St Romford parked by necessity
« Reply #10 on: »
I got a snapshot from my dashcam turning round when I left

 

Apparently the sign on the taxi rank side says "No Stopping except for taxis" which would make sense for the side the taxi rank is on.

Re: High St Romford parked by necessity
« Reply #11 on: »
First, thank you for the time the experts here spend guiding me on this. Something has come to my mind that may 'indirectly' give grounds for a challenge and i would be grateful for some thoughts.

On the rear of a LBH parking ticket is a statement in bold lettering informing that We Cannot accept verbal challenges in person or on the telephone being quite insistent a disabled person cannot make an oral representation.

 https://i.postimg.cc/4Ng8gR68/pfnr.png

However, in The LBH Discretion Policy for the Enforcement and Cancellation
Penalty Charge Notice [Appendix A]

https://www.havering.gov.uk/downloads/file/96/policy_for_enforcing_or_cancelling_a_pcn

It is stated that any disabled person with inability to provide written evidence may make an oral representation.

So which is true - The Bold, insistent type on the PCN or the section in small fainter type on the link you have to log onto and study until the end to read ? Is there here a conflict that creates a challenge ?

Re: High St Romford parked by necessity
« Reply #12 on: »
If you want to look at this angle, then you need to understand more detail.

Statutory guidance for local authorities in England on civil enforcement of parking contraventions
Updated 20 October 2022


https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/civil-enforcement-of-parking-contraventions/guidance-for-local-authorities-on-enforcing-parking-restrictions

Is the current SoS Stat Guidance.

You've posted a LB Havering doc from 2016, which is therefore out of date.

If the council doesn't have a current published policy then it's in breach of its legal duty under s87 TMA and this is, IMO, a procedural impropriety and grounds of representation and ultimately appeal.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/section/87


(2) A “procedural impropriety” means a failure by an enforcement authority to observe any requirement imposed on it by—

(a)the TMA 2004,

(b)the 2022 General Regulations, or

(c)these Regulations,

in relation to the imposition or recovery of a penalty charge or other sum.


https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2022/9780348231564


As regards Appendix A, this was a report to the Environment and Transport Committee of London Councils (a pan-London representative body) in March 2013 and is therefore a tad out of date. In any event, that committee has no executive authority over Havering in this respect.


Re: High St Romford parked by necessity
« Reply #13 on: »
I'm  not sure I fully understand your procedural impropriety angle but don't doubt it. I'm not great at reading through and remembering text as I read it.

I'm not sure but I think that if the council still publishes a policy despite it's original date they still count it as so [I seem to remember something about that in the document]. With reference to Appendix A have they used the case as a reference to the equality act and how the council should treat drivers with the relevant disabilities ?  [I hope that makes sense]

Re: High St Romford parked by necessity
« Reply #14 on: »
Let's wait for their photos.