Author Topic: Havering - Stopping in a Box Junction - 31J Station Road/Branfill Road, RM14  (Read 336 times)

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MrChips

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Can you confirm how and when you submitted representations? The charge certificate looks incorrect where it says the original PCN was served on 18 October - by my reckoning it was deemed served on 22 October which would have given you until 18 November to submit representations.

Other than your representations, have you sent anything else, e.g. a follow up or 'chaser'?

Hippocrates

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How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

mrmustard

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If the car is leased ignore the balance of this post except to tell us if it is leased.

There is a fundamental point.
The law says:

6 - Limitation on service of penalty charge notice

(1 )Subject to the provisions of this section, no penalty charge notice may be served under this Act after the expiry of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention or failure to comply occurred.

Alleged contravention date is 24 September = day 1
Day 28 = 21 October
PCN dated 18 October
OP says he received it on 22 October (OP's first post dated that day says just received).

Deemed service is on the 2nd working day.
18 October was a Friday so deemed service was also 22 October.

If therefore the OP did make his post to this forum on the day of receipt the PCN is unlawful and if I was the OP I would be writing to the council telling them that everything they have done from the start is unlawful and they must stop any further action and cancel the PCN.

(Havering are error prone https://lbbspending.blogspot.com/2024/12/havering-council-3-errors-in-one-pcn.html)
I help you pro bono (for free). I only ask that a donation is made to the North London Hospice if you can afford it and if you win. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless.

jays86

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Thanks for all the advice so far.

@MrChips I don't have the exact date I submitted reps, poor record keeping on my part. Their letter references 19th November, but I can't see why I would have left it so long to get something over to them.

@mrmustard The car is not leased and that is an interesting point that you raise regarding the 28 days.

Is the complaint here that, the PCN was served outside the 28 day period and is therefore unlawful. Furthermore no Charge Certificate was ever received. Is there anything else I should be saying?

MrChips

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OK, so Mr Mustard has (as usual) come forward with a trump card!  The PCN seems to have been served too late and so Havering cannot (legally) pursue you for the penalty.  That should be enough to win it for you on its own.

Only trouble is the most recent letter suggests Havering believe you to be beyond the point of making any representations and we are a bit in the dark as to why.  Can you seriously not recall at all how and when you responded to them?  I presume you sent representations using their online portal?  Did you take a screenshot  of what you wrote?  Anything at all to indicate what day it was?

Hopefully, it is as simple as writing to them to point out they served the PCN too late.  However I suspect they will ignore/refute this, or fail to understand the concept of service (after all their recent letter implies they believe the PCN was served on 18 October).  In which case you will have to somehow get the PCN back on track of the formal process.  If they have issued a Charge Certificate, then the next stage is an Order for Recovery which includes the means to get the process reset if you can confirm you submitted representations in time and did not receive a Notice of Rejection.

mrmustard

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I would go on the offensive (politely) and send a letter of complaint setting out the plain fact that they have broken the law and should know better.
I help you pro bono (for free). I only ask that a donation is made to the North London Hospice if you can afford it and if you win. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless.

jays86

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Here's a draft of what I'm going to send. Any comments/changes before I do?

I am writing with regard to Penalty Charge Notice HG6144554A issued to my vehicle EJ67FLV.

The PCN is invalid and not legally enforceable based on Section 6 - Limitation on service of penalty charge notice, which clearly states:

“Subject to the provisions of this section, no penalty charge notice may be served under this Act after the expiry of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention or failure to comply occurred.”

The alleged contravention occurred on 24th September, and the PCN is deemed to be served on 22nd October (deemed service is the 2nd working day following the date of the letter). This exceeds the 28-day limitation period specified in the Act, rendering the PCN unlawful.

Your continued pursuit of this invalid PCN is not only unjust but also unlawful. Given this I respectfully request that the PCN be immediately cancelled and that you confirm this in writing at your earliest convenience.

mrmustard

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OK
I help you pro bono (for free). I only ask that a donation is made to the North London Hospice if you can afford it and if you win. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless.

Hippocrates

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Send it to Ray Morgon and the parking department too. He will be aware that they have problems.
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899
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