Author Topic: Havering - Stopping in a Box Junction - 31J Station Road/Branfill Road, RM14  (Read 1273 times)

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Can you confirm how and when you submitted representations? The charge certificate looks incorrect where it says the original PCN was served on 18 October - by my reckoning it was deemed served on 22 October which would have given you until 18 November to submit representations.

Other than your representations, have you sent anything else, e.g. a follow up or 'chaser'?

IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

If the car is leased ignore the balance of this post except to tell us if it is leased.

There is a fundamental point.
The law says:

6 - Limitation on service of penalty charge notice

(1 )Subject to the provisions of this section, no penalty charge notice may be served under this Act after the expiry of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention or failure to comply occurred.

Alleged contravention date is 24 September = day 1
Day 28 = 21 October
PCN dated 18 October
OP says he received it on 22 October (OP's first post dated that day says just received).

Deemed service is on the 2nd working day.
18 October was a Friday so deemed service was also 22 October.

If therefore the OP did make his post to this forum on the day of receipt the PCN is unlawful and if I was the OP I would be writing to the council telling them that everything they have done from the start is unlawful and they must stop any further action and cancel the PCN.

(Havering are error prone https://lbbspending.blogspot.com/2024/12/havering-council-3-errors-in-one-pcn.html)
I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.

Thanks for all the advice so far.

@MrChips I don't have the exact date I submitted reps, poor record keeping on my part. Their letter references 19th November, but I can't see why I would have left it so long to get something over to them.

@mrmustard The car is not leased and that is an interesting point that you raise regarding the 28 days.

Is the complaint here that, the PCN was served outside the 28 day period and is therefore unlawful. Furthermore no Charge Certificate was ever received. Is there anything else I should be saying?

OK, so Mr Mustard has (as usual) come forward with a trump card!  The PCN seems to have been served too late and so Havering cannot (legally) pursue you for the penalty.  That should be enough to win it for you on its own.

Only trouble is the most recent letter suggests Havering believe you to be beyond the point of making any representations and we are a bit in the dark as to why.  Can you seriously not recall at all how and when you responded to them?  I presume you sent representations using their online portal?  Did you take a screenshot  of what you wrote?  Anything at all to indicate what day it was?

Hopefully, it is as simple as writing to them to point out they served the PCN too late.  However I suspect they will ignore/refute this, or fail to understand the concept of service (after all their recent letter implies they believe the PCN was served on 18 October).  In which case you will have to somehow get the PCN back on track of the formal process.  If they have issued a Charge Certificate, then the next stage is an Order for Recovery which includes the means to get the process reset if you can confirm you submitted representations in time and did not receive a Notice of Rejection.

I would go on the offensive (politely) and send a letter of complaint setting out the plain fact that they have broken the law and should know better.
I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.

Here's a draft of what I'm going to send. Any comments/changes before I do?

I am writing with regard to Penalty Charge Notice HG6144554A issued to my vehicle EJ67FLV.

The PCN is invalid and not legally enforceable based on Section 6 - Limitation on service of penalty charge notice, which clearly states:

“Subject to the provisions of this section, no penalty charge notice may be served under this Act after the expiry of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention or failure to comply occurred.”

The alleged contravention occurred on 24th September, and the PCN is deemed to be served on 22nd October (deemed service is the 2nd working day following the date of the letter). This exceeds the 28-day limitation period specified in the Act, rendering the PCN unlawful.

Your continued pursuit of this invalid PCN is not only unjust but also unlawful. Given this I respectfully request that the PCN be immediately cancelled and that you confirm this in writing at your earliest convenience.

OK
I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.

Send it to Ray Morgon and the parking department too. He will be aware that they have problems.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
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Just had the following response from Havering:

Thank you for your enquiry.

I can confirm the contravention date is 24/09/2024 and the Penalty Charge Notice was issued Friday 18/10/2024 1st class mail therefore service is deemed Monday 21/10/2024 which is 27 days service.

Please be advised the options available to you at this time are to make payment of the full outstanding balance of £130 to prevent incurring further charges or wait for the Order For Recovery to file Statutory Declaration should you have the grounds (please see grounds below) to do so and return the form to Traffic Enforcement Centre the address can be found on the form.

I did not receive the:
Notice to Owner (Parking contravention) or
Enforcement Notice (Bus lane contravention) or
Penalty Charge Notice (Moving Traffic contravention or Congestion Charging contravention)
I made representations about the penalty charge to the local authority concerned within 28 days of the service of the Notice to Owner/Enforcement Notice/Penalty Charge Notice, but did not receive a rejection notice.
I appealed to the Parking/Traffic Adjudicator against the local authority’s decision to reject my representation, within 28 days of service of the rejection notice, but have had no response to my appeal.

Kind regards


Any suggestions on next steps...?

28 days from date of contravention. But is this date, Day 1 or Day 0 ?

I would write back asking how they come to their interpretation of deemed service as the Civil Procedure Rules, for example, have it as the second working day.

Deemed service

6.14 A claim form served within the United Kingdom in accordance with this Part is deemed to be served on the second business day after completion of the relevant step under rule 7.5(1).
I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.

@mrmustard We can talk about this on Wednesday if you like; but, here is my suggestion:

The deemed date of service is the 22nd as already advised. I have two bus lane cases with them already and have complained to the powers that be. Their system and/or staff need root to branch review.

Without wishing to tread upon any one else's toes, I suggest that either mrmustard or I represent you now and get this sorted. At this stage. They certainly know my name, at least.

Even their chief lawyer wrote to me two years ago with drivel re bus lane certificates.

This is total incompetence.  They are top of my list at present. Cannot divulge anymore save for a pending review hearing next week  re their PCNs and websites.

I am prepared for the JR stage if necessary.........
« Last Edit: February 10, 2025, 08:43:07 pm by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

All yours hippo
I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.

All yours hippo

Cheers!  I will PM the OP. My round.  8)
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r