Author Topic: Havering PCN, 52M: Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle, South St RM1 / Eastern Rd RM1  (Read 628 times)

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You mentioned procedural impropriety? Failure to consider.
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"

I have the same code PCN, from exactly the same location with Havering. I also appealed and it was rejected, missed the first reduced rate date as we have been dealing with a family bereavement however would still like to go to tribunal - just unsure on the best argument? Lack of signage, incorrect road name, video does not show my vehicle passing any signage?

I am supposed to be retiring. I will PM you.
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"

I have the same code PCN, from exactly the same location with Havering. I also appealed and it was rejected, missed the first reduced rate date as we have been dealing with a family bereavement however would still like to go to tribunal - just unsure on the best argument? Lack of signage, incorrect road name, video does not show my vehicle passing any signage?

I think you'll need to create your own post as the rules don't allow "hijacking" another thread

I have the same code PCN, from exactly the same location with Havering. I also appealed and it was rejected, missed the first reduced rate date as we have been dealing with a family bereavement however would still like to go to tribunal - just unsure on the best argument? Lack of signage, incorrect road name, video does not show my vehicle passing any signage?

I think you'll need to create your own post as the rules don't allow "hijacking" another thread
Yes. If you need advice on going to London Tribunals we need all the documents etc. So please start a new thread.

For convenience (you have been using the HTML link rather than the BBCode):

Thanks for your help with this, I didn't realise I was using the wrong URL link, will ensure I use BBCode in the future so it embeds properly.

You mentioned procedural impropriety? Failure to consider.

I did, I mentioned everything from your previous message (below)

Before you do anything please screenshot their website.

1. The PCN does not particularise which vehicles.

2. Similarly, neither do the images nor the video provided.

3. The PCN is invalid as it is missing mandatory information as provided at Para. 4 (8 ) (v) of https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted

· (v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable.

Clearly, this refers to Para. 4 (8 ) (iii):

· (iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;

4. The PCN contains one invalid ground re the Traffic Order being invalid.

5. Your website contains 3 invalid grounds.

In light of the above, please cancel the PCN.

I am supposed to be retiring. I will PM you.

Thanks, appreciate any help with this.

Considering submitting the following London Tribunals Appeal. Appreciate any advice, as I know sometimes ChatGPT can get things horrendously wrong...



London Tribunals Appeal – Full Draft

Ground of Appeal: The alleged contravention did not occur and there has been a procedural impropriety



1. The Penalty Charge Notice fails to particularise the alleged contravention

The Penalty Charge Notice alleges contravention code 52M – “Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle.”

This description is generic and does not specify which class of vehicle was prohibited. A recipient of a PCN is entitled to know, from the face of the notice itself, the nature of the allegation they are required to answer.

In the Notice of Rejection, the authority now states for the first time that the location is:

“a road restricted to motor vehicles (except buses)”.

This information does not appear on the PCN. The enforcement authority cannot retrospectively clarify or redefine the allegation during correspondence. The PCN must contain sufficient particulars at the time it is served.

The failure to specify the prohibited vehicle class renders the PCN vague and prejudicial. I was not properly informed of the case I had to meet.



2. The authority relies on CCTV evidence which does not show the restriction relied upon

The PCN is issued on the basis of CCTV enforcement.

In the Notice of Rejection, the authority expressly states:

“Due to the positioning of the CCTV camera the signs are not seen in the CCTV footage.”

The authority therefore accepts that:
   •   the signage relied upon is not visible in the enforcement footage; and
   •   the restriction itself is not evidenced in the CCTV record.

While signage does not need to appear in every frame, where CCTV is the sole evidence relied upon, the authority must still demonstrate—by clear evidence—that the restriction was adequately signed and applicable at the material time.

In this case, the authority has provided no still images, diagrams, or other evidence showing:
   •   the position of the signs relative to the vehicle’s approach,
   •   their visibility at 01:07 hours, or
   •   how the restriction applied to my vehicle.

The Tribunal is being asked to accept compliance with signage requirements purely on assertion. That is insufficient.



3. Failure to properly consider representations

In my formal representations, I raised specific points regarding:
   •   the lack of particularisation of the alleged contravention,
   •   defects in the statutory grounds stated on the PCN, and
   •   the inclusion of non-statutory grounds elsewhere by the authority.

The Notice of Rejection does not meaningfully address these points. Instead, it contains a blanket assertion that:

“There has been no procedural impropriety by the Enforcement Authority.”

A mere assertion is not evidence of proper consideration. The authority is under a duty to genuinely consider representations made. That duty has not been discharged.



4. Prejudice caused by the authority’s approach

The cumulative effect of the above is prejudicial:
   •   The PCN did not tell me what vehicle class was prohibited.
   •   The CCTV evidence does not show the restriction.
   •   The authority clarified the alleged restriction only after the event.
   •   My representations were not substantively addressed.

This is not a case where the allegation was clear and the evidence compelling. The enforcement process has failed to meet the standard required by law.



Conclusion

For the reasons set out above, I respectfully submit that:
   •   the alleged contravention has not been proved, and
   •   the Penalty Charge Notice is unenforceable.

I therefore ask the Adjudicator to allow the appeal and direct cancellation of the Penalty Charge Notice.