3. Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
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Author Topic: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster  (Read 1332 times)

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Re: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
« Reply #15 on: »
Ok, thanks. I have submitted the following query:

"photographs taken by the CEO when issuing the PCN have not been made available. Please provide copies of these photographs."

Received an email confirming receipt of query with the following message:

"Your reference number is F684723584.

Thank you for submitting LBH Parking PCN Online enquiry form."

I'll update post once I receive a reply
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Re: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
« Reply #16 on: »
The CEO's photos are now online:















The last photo helpfully confirms that there was no suspension sign on the regulatory sign just ahead of your car, so you were entitled to rely on that sign. Here's a simple challenge:

Dear London Borough of Havering,

I challenge this PCN on the ground that the alleged contravention did not occur. This is because when I got out of my car I did not see any suspension signs, the regulatory sign just in front of my car was not in fact carrying any suspension sign and this is confirmed by the last CEO photo taken from behind my car. I saw the regulatory sign and I was entitled to rely on it, once I found the PCN I determined that there was another regulatory sign further along that did have a suspension sign, but that suspension sign was obscured by the roadworks signs, see the attached images. In light of the inadequate signage the contravention did not occur, and the PCN must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,


Send this online and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page, also upload at least the first three photos that you've taken yourself (if the council website only lets you upload three it doesn't matter if you can't upload the fourth one).
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
« Reply #17 on: »
In the first image the suspension sign is attached to a lamp post (can identify it and from comparison to Google street view as the post is white colour) which has a "no loading" sign. So this suspension notice is not attached to the regulatory "disabled bay" sign. Not sure if this weakens the appeal at all. Certainly as noted above, the first disabled bay sign (which is in front of the vehicle) does not have a suspension sign attached.

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Re: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
« Reply #18 on: »
Appeal submitted.

Many thanks to all that have provided guidance to prepare the appeal, much appreciated.


Informal Challenge Form
Thank you for your correspondence, your reference number is: W20768396

Please keep this for your records, you will receive a response to your correspondence by post or email, within 56 working days.
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Re: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
« Reply #19 on: »
Are you the registered keeper of the car? I ask because history suggests that the authority will reject your informal reps and therefore the registered keeper - on whom a NTO would be served- comes into play.

Current DVLA keeper details?
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Re: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
« Reply #20 on: »
My wife is the registered keeper of the vehicle.
Does this affect how things proceed from here?
From earlier posts on this thread I had expected that the initial appeal would be rejected routinely by the council. Should this happen then should further appeals be in her name?
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Re: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
« Reply #21 on: »
Quote from: ixo on February 05, 2025, 02:37:31 pm
My wife is the registered keeper of the vehicle.
Does this affect how things proceed from here?
From earlier posts on this thread I had expected that the initial appeal would be rejected routinely by the council. Should this happen then should further appeals be in her name?
If you want to continue to pursue the matter, then you wait for the Notice to Owner. You will need to get a letter of authority from your wife for you to act on her behalf at that stage and onwards to adjudication if you get that far
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Re: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
« Reply #22 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on February 05, 2025, 03:17:05 pm
If you want to continue to pursue the matter, then you wait for the Notice to Owner. You will need to get a letter of authority from your wife for you to act on her behalf at that stage and onwards to adjudication if you get that far
If you're making representations online then as long as you have her consent, you can just put her name in the relevant boxes on the council website, there's no way they could even know.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2025, 10:32:46 pm by cp8759 »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
« Reply #23 on: »
Slight senior moment on my part, my wife is not the registered keeper of the car which I indicated in a previous post. The car is leased so the registered keeper is the leasing company. When I submitted the appeal to the council on 04 Feb 2025 I did so in my own name.
I have just had an email from the council rejecting my initial appeal. The rejection letter is at the following links:

https://imgur.com/a/K2jXda9
https://imgur.com/a/zZIE9dx

Would appreciate advice on how to proceed from here.
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Re: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
« Reply #24 on: »
Contact the hire company, warn them that the Notice to Owner will be coming, and ask them to make a representation requesting a transfer of liability. The council will then reissue the Notice to Owner to whoever has leased the vehicle, either you or your wife.

As the discount is off the table, there's no point in paying now.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
« Reply #25 on: »
Has been a little while since any communication to report. I did contact the leasing company a while back to ask for transfer of liability but got no response.

Have just received an email from leasing company with two attachments uploaded at the following links (I have removed personal info and references from the uploads):

Havering Letter:
https://imgur.com/a/h93deRj [page 01]
https://imgur.com/a/2v41rl7 [page 02]
https://imgur.com/a/1aedjQa [page 03]
https://imgur.com/a/PY9mO7y [page 04]

Leasing Company letter:
https://imgur.com/a/5tZZ7Sw [page 01]
https://imgur.com/a/rIrqmhn [page 02]

The letter from Havering to the leasing company is dated 14/04/2025 and the letter from the leasing company to me is dated 26/04/2025, so the 28 day deadline to respond has been eaten into a little.

The letter from the leasing company states the following:

"We have given your details to the relevant issuer transferring liability of this parking charge notice to you. The issuer will now contact you directly."

Although the leasing company letter states that they "have attached a Third Party Authorisation letter", they did not include any such authorisation letter in their email.

There doesn't seem to be much time remaining to appeal, but am slightly confused if I am able to do so without a third party authorisation letter.

I would be very grateful for further advice on how to proceed from here.
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Re: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
« Reply #26 on: »
You can't do anything until you have a notice to owner in your name. You need to ensure the lease firm gave the correct name and address to Havering.
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Re: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
« Reply #27 on: »
The hire company has challenged the NTO on the ground that they're a hire company and you had hired the vehicle, so now you just need to wait for the council to cancel the NTO to the hire company and issue a new one in your own name. You will then have 28 days from the date of service of that new Notice to Owner to make representations.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
« Reply #28 on: »
I was concerned that the letter from Havering Council to the hire (leasing) company says they (as vehicle owner) are legally responsible and shouldn't pass on the PCN to the person driving the vehicle, and at the same time the amount payable is being increased as time goes on.

I was also worried I had perhaps interfered with the correct process since I submitted an appeal directly to Havering at the start of the process before any Penalty notification was transferred to my name.

If the Penalty notification to the leasing company is cancelled and a new one issued in my name presumably that will mean the whole process is reset to start and I will need to resubmit an initial appeal to HAvering?

Thanks again for all guidance on this.
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Re: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
« Reply #29 on: »
Quote from: ixo on April 29, 2025, 03:25:47 pm
I was concerned that the letter from Havering Council to the hire (leasing) company says they (as vehicle owner) are legally responsible and shouldn't pass on the PCN to the person driving the vehicle, and at the same time the amount payable is being increased as time goes on.
That wording is intended to avoid situations where someone has lent a car to their friend and hands the NTO to their friend to deal with, for hire companies the situation is legally different.

Quote from: ixo on April 29, 2025, 03:25:47 pm
If the Penalty notification to the leasing company is cancelled and a new one issued in my name presumably that will mean the whole process is reset to start and I will need to resubmit an initial appeal to HAvering?
That's exactly right, once you have a new Notice to Owner in your own name you can submit your own representations.
Logged
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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