Author Topic: HARROW, CODE 33E using a route restricted to certain vehicles buses cycles and taxis only  (Read 972 times)

0 Members and 234 Guests are viewing this topic.

CAMROSE AVENUE 04 Feb 2024 @17:34  x2!!

Little did i know how famous this money trap is, has nothing done to address it over the years?

Hi Guys/Girls, 

I decieded to help one of my student tennants move her things back home in Harrow from Hatfield as she was moving out and i was headed in that direction so why not - now this letter x 2 landed on my doorstep ! :-[

I have asked for cctv footage by email and by using the website link i saw on here, about a week ago and yet to receive anything - keep checking like a paranoid fool my junk emails !  :'(

So i recevied actually 2 PCN's both recorded at the same time - so firstly this is not allowable im sure, both have different PCN numbers. Why did it decide to send me two??

I was unfamiliar with the road and was from memory surrounded by other cars, checking my GPS route which said straight on! and only saw the Bus Gate at the last moment, im sure somone infront also when through!

As it seemed very narrow and lots of cars to the back and side of me moving into the right hand side lane for cars seemed more dangerous than driving straight, me thinking that its a sunday and after 7pm there should not be any kind of bus lane penalty associated with this place.

The road layout and the fact that there is short amount of time to make an informed decision meant that i took the safer route of driving straight through - if i had prior warning with decent signage eg if it said AT ANYTIME or something similar i would have not done it, but lets face it its a money making scheme to trap us!
1)


2)


only signs i found before the approach of the pcn location
https://maps.app.goo.gl/wrNvct3HYM7q76QG9

https://maps.app.goo.gl/sGbVN7xBLH3otzk67

https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZysRbNSYPtRSHG8Y9

from the other side

https://maps.app.goo.gl/iRzukfEmdtvDP1ft7

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Z7efNFeW9XMhFkJL8



I'm not sure if the google images show the current signage - i may 'carefully' pass by there again to take my own photos.

I will be sending the challenge soon - i have been waiting for the video footage first to get a better idea of what happened but my time to pay within 14 days at £65 expires on the 21st Feb 2024.

Given the history of this place what are my chances of winning an appeal? 

Appreciate all help offered!!
« Last Edit: February 18, 2024, 11:46:27 pm by soundpound »

Share on Bluesky Share on Facebook


Quote
Given the history of this place what are my chances of winning an appeal?
Not good, I'm afraid, but you can see for yourself by looking at the London Tribunals Statutory Register under "Camrose Avenue", plus with a date range.
https://londontribunals.org.uk/ords/pwslive/f?p=14952:30::INITIALISE::Y::&cs=30Ek2KiLP5CJSj1uuVzncpyB0sRXYBQYRjS3mwD-LanDspjdn1D51m4_ug2OK-d9-_rRI7ygqjStaRqDME23lcg
However, you should be able to get the 2nd PCN cancelled off as it is a single contravention from what your narrative describes.

Wow thanks for that - it makes for some sombre reading unfortunatly. Although in most cases it is judged that a contrvention occured  from my observation there is no challenges on the poor layout of the road which does not give the drivers enough time to plan ahead and move into the 'correct' lane. How can this be overthrown? it seems like the judge is in cahoots with the council! 

The fact that it is a very poor layout in terms of safety and warning signs especially at night time and if its raining etc - there should be a petition to add more signs further up the road to warn drivers to 'get in lane' or similar - im sure the £1.8 million per month revenue would cover that!  This is a disgrace  >:(

I am thinking to challenge it based on the following:


I am writing to formally challenge the above Penalty Charge Notice issued to my vehicle. After a thorough review of the circumstances and the local signage, I believe the PCN was wrongly issued for the following reasons:

Adequacy of Signage: The signage indicating the bus gate on Camrose Avenue is inadequate, particularly during nighttime conditions when visibility is reduced. The lack of sufficient illumination and clarity on the signage did not provide the necessary alert to the approaching bus gate restriction. This inadequacy is heightened by the fact that the only advanced warning signs visible were related to a width restriction, not a bus gate.

Late Disclosure of Restriction: The positioning and timing of the bus gate signage did not afford adequate time to safely maneuver out of the bus gate lane. Due to the flow of traffic and for the safety of all road users, I was compelled to proceed through the bus gate to avoid a potential traffic incident. This decision was made in the interest of safety, given the immediate traffic conditions and the sudden appearance of the restriction.

Faded Road Markings: The road markings indicating the bus gate were noticeably faded and not observable during the night. The bus gate's red road surface did not offer a sufficient approach distance to safely realign the vehicle, contributing to the confusion and the eventual contravention.

Inconsistent Road Treatments: The absence of standard double yellow, red lines, solid white line, which are typically consistent with bus gates and bus lines, contributed to the confusion. Additionally, the bus gate's unconventional placement compared to standard practices in London further misled me as a driver.

Lack of Pre-warning Signs: The presence of a pre-warning sign before the crossroad or near the central island would have provided crucial additional time to adjust vehicle positioning. The sudden appearance of the bus gate restriction, without adequate pre-warning, significantly increased the risk of a traffic incident.


The Traffic Signs Manual and the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions (TSRGD) 2016 set clear standards for signage and road markings, which I believe were not adequately met in this instance. Given these points, I respectfully request that the Penalty Charge Notice be cancelled.

I trust that you will find these points sufficient to warrant a revocation of the PCN. Should you require any further information or photographic evidence, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Yours sincerely,


If someone can help add a bit more or revise this to add more weight would be great!

I have added pics that evening from there CCTV stills and also you can see from GSV how confusing and cramped the area is on approach albeit photo taken back in 2008, i will be back there tomorrow to get some better snaps to add to the case!!



[ Guests cannot view attachments ]
« Last Edit: February 19, 2024, 04:25:11 am by soundpound »

Please show the other side(s) of the PCNs as there may well be  a technical argument.  This may well apply:

I bring a collateral challenge on the basis that the PCN is unenforceable because the taken without consent ground clearly fetters to theft by its very wording that a crime report be provided. Therefore, this inaccurate reflection of the statutory ground does not take into account that a relative, or friend, may have taken the vehicle without the owner's permission so that the owner would not necessarily, if at all, report the matter to the Police in such circumstances or, indeed, make an insurance claim.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2024, 12:17:47 pm by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Hi Hippo - many thanks i have attached here but i do not see any wording that looks similar.

https://imgur.com/gallery/0su8G3h

IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Yes i see it now! Should have gone to specsavers!! lol

Based on that technicality alone i guess it could go in my favour - does it depend on the day or would you say there is a good chance that it would work?

Yes i see it now! Should have gone to specsavers!! lol

Based on that technicality alone i guess it could go in my favour - does it depend on the day or would you say there is a good chance that it would work?

It depends on what their reply is - if any.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Hi! Any luck with this appeal? I’ve had the same PCN so would appreciate any advice please. It’s a complete joke to give so many people PCNs for this. Clearly their signs are not adequate and don’t provide enough time to see them and act accordingly.