3. City of Edinburgh Council - Penalty Charge Notice for parking on a "pavement"
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cyoung17

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Re: City of Edinburgh Council - Penalty Charge Notice for parking on a "pavement"
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2024, 12:41:58 pm »
Quote from: cp8759 on May 02, 2024, 11:23:51 pm
Here you go:

Dear City of Edinburgh Council,

I challenge liability for this penalty charge on the ground that my car was not parked on a road. A road is defined by section 151 of the Roads (Scotland) Act 1984 as follows:

“road” means, subject to subsection (3) below, any way (other than a waterway) over which there is a public right of passage (by whatever means and whether subject to a toll or not) and includes the road’s verge, and any bridge (whether permanent or temporary) over which, or tunnel through which, the road passes; and any reference to a road includes a part thereof;

The land where my vehicle was parked is roughly square and it does not lead anywhere, being surrounded on three sides by physical barriers. I also note the land in question is not part of the adopted highway according to your map at https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/roads-pavements/statutory-list-public-roads

As there is no right of passage over this land from one place to another, the land does not form part of any road or highway, and as such the contravention cannot have occurred.

Yours faithfully,

Send this online and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.

@cp8759 This would be great, except they are claiming I was in contravention of Section 50 "Parked on a Pavement" not a road.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2024, 02:13:50 pm by cp8759 »
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cp8759

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Re: City of Edinburgh Council - Penalty Charge Notice for parking on a "pavement"
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2024, 02:17:37 pm »
Quote from: cyoung17 on May 05, 2024, 12:41:58 pm
@cp8759 This would be great, except they are claiming I was in contravention of Section 50 "Parked on a Pavement" not a road.

@cyoung17 legally speaking pavements, verges etc are all part of the road. You're confusing "road" with "carriageway", but they're not the same thing. The council only has a power to enforce on a road, so if the car was not on a road at all (which it wasn't because that bit of pavement is not on a road), there is no contravention and there is also no power to serve a PCN.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

cyoung17

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Re: City of Edinburgh Council - Penalty Charge Notice for parking on a "pavement"
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2024, 10:02:02 am »
Quote from: cp8759 on May 05, 2024, 02:17:37 pm
Quote from: cyoung17 on May 05, 2024, 12:41:58 pm
@cp8759 This would be great, except they are claiming I was in contravention of Section 50 "Parked on a Pavement" not a road.

@cyoung17 legally speaking pavements, verges etc are all part of the road. You're confusing "road" with "carriageway", but they're not the same thing. The council only has a power to enforce on a road, so if the car was not on a road at all (which it wasn't because that bit of pavement is not on a road), there is no contravention and there is also no power to serve a PCN.

@cp8759 I think the law has changed in Scotland recently. The council are now able to fine you if you park on a pavement.
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cp8759

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Re: City of Edinburgh Council - Penalty Charge Notice for parking on a "pavement"
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2024, 01:00:32 pm »
Quote from: cyoung17 on May 06, 2024, 10:02:02 am
@cp8759 I think the law has changed in Scotland recently. The council are now able to fine you if you park on a pavement.
@cyoung17 I know, I've been doing this for a very long time.

With the best will in the world, have you read either the legislation linked above or the case of City of Edinburgh Council v Chris Hogan?

I am telling you that as far as the law is concerned, the word "road" includes pavements, verges and so on, and that if you were not parked on a "road" then you did not commit a contravention regardless of whether you were on a "pavement" or not (otherwise if you had a paved driveway outside your house, you would not be able to park there either).

You came here for legal advice and I have given you advice, at this point it's up to you whether you want to accept what I've told you or not. To a certain extent you need to just trust that we know what we're talking about.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

cyoung17

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Re: City of Edinburgh Council - Penalty Charge Notice for parking on a "pavement"
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2024, 06:38:37 pm »
@cp8759

Thanks for the clarification. I was not in anyway challenging the advice you were giving me I just misunderstood you. Thanks again for the help.
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