Author Topic: Haringey PCN - 52(M) Failing to comply with a prohibition - Date of Notice/Service error fixed?  (Read 40 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Noodles

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Hi all,

My partner who is the registered owner of our call received a PCN from the London Borough of Haringey for "52(M) Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (motor vehicles)"

https://imgur.com/a/4WF90zn

I (a named driver on the insurance policy) was driving the vehicle at the time and not her.

We were a bit confused at first as the PCN wasn't clear as to what the prohibition was, but after some googling (and finding this post on this site: https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/haringey-52(m)-pcn/) it became apparent that only residents with a permit can drive in that area. We were traveling back after visiting family at the time, and were unfamiliar with the area. I recall seeing the sign but it was pretty late and I only remember seeing the circular sign with the motorbike and car, thinking it meant we could drive through. I tried to find the sign on google maps but it looks like this still has not been updated yet, but on the PCN photo, it looks like there was also a white sign with text underneath. I must have completely missed this, which I am not sure what it said but assume it would have stated permitted vehicles only or something similar.

On the PCN itself, from the post above and also the helpful PCN spreadsheet, I understand that the primary way to challenge the PCN is that PCNs used to incorrectly state 28 days from the Date of Notice for the fine to increase, as opposed to the Date of Service. I checked the PCN received and believe this has now been correctly updated, so am not sure whether a challenge would still succeed.

Given the above, I am not sure if it would be worth fighting this, or simply paying the PCN as an expensive mistake for not seeing the sign.

Any advice and opinions are very much appreciated!

Thank you.

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter


Incandescent

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2301
  • Karma: +55/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Crewe
    • View Profile
The registered keeper is responsible for either paying or appealing a PCN, who was driving at the time is irrelevant, unless the keeper is a hire company.

The London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 under which the PCN is served defines all time periods as from PCN date, whereas the Transport Management Act 2004 defines them as from date of service. In London, the TMA 2004 is used to enforce parking, and the LLA & TfL Act 2003 is used to enforce moving traffic offences.

The key part of your narrative is: -
Quote
I recall seeing the sign but it was pretty late and I only remember seeing the circular sign with the motorbike and car, thinking it meant we could drive through.
This is the exact opposite of what the sign means, which is "No Entry to motorvehicles".
The video of your contravention shows you slowed to a stop, (or almost), before driving past the planters with their signs, so the contravention seems to be made out. The only alternative would be to find a "technical" appeal based on the content of the PCN, and their management of the enforcement process. Others more expert on London cases may be able to suggest such an argument, but it would inevitably mean you having to register an appeal at London Tribunals, because London councils almost never admit error.

Noodles

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Ah. So pretty much a slam dunk then eh?

Looks like it's really time to dig out the old highway code and give that thing a fresh read.

Thank you any way!

Hippocrates

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1637
  • Karma: +17/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: The Cosmos.
    • View Profile
They fixed the PCN several months ago after we won at least 6 on the issue. We really should charge them et alia.
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι εἰ