Author Topic: Haringey Code 12r (parking without valid permit) in resident bay - 13 PCNs & appeals rejected  (Read 1273 times)

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inst1nct103

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Thank you!

I'm not surprised at all about the tampering. I think I'm more aligned with you in saving these details for a later stage (if it comes to it). But happy to see what others think?

Yes, the correct number is 14. It's the impound PCN that's been paid as you highlighted but thought it's technically not part of this appeal. I'll include it anyway as it adds no harm.

Unfortunately the issue is that I can't appeal it via the council website, given it's been paid.

I have just noticed they have a contact box so I could use that and highlight that the sufficient information for how I can make a representation for this PCN was not given at the impound, and then ask them how I would go about doing this.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2024, 04:27:31 pm by inst1nct103 »

Enceladus

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If you have to post anything then do so first class at the Post Officer counter before last post and obtain a FOC proof of posting. The letter will be deemed served on the second working day after posting.

There is a problem with appealing the PCN and tow. Your sister retrieved the car on the 1st of June. You had 28 days beginning with that date to submit a representation (challenge), which if refused would have included the credentials to appeal to the Adjudicator at the London Tribunals. You're now late. Without the Notice of Rejection you won't be able to appeal to the Adjudicator.

This has apparently come about because at the pound they didn't give you (your sister) the instructions concerning your rights to make representations and appeal and how to go to do so. And so you didn't know of the deadlines. So you should explain that in the pound section. Hopefully they will still accept your representations.

cp8759

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@inst1nct103 I think you need to add an out-of-time representation against the removal PCN, and you need to add some wording explaining that because no representations paperwork was provided at the pound you were not aware of your right to make representations, nor were you aware of the 28 day time limit, and you were only alerted to the fact that you could make representations against that PCN when you sought legal advice.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

inst1nct103

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@Enceladus and @cp8759, thank you!

I wasn't aware of the ability to make an out-of-time so I'll do that and include the bits you mentioned.

Then I'll include this also in the pound section moreso to reference the malpractice at the site and how I intend to do the above, rather than appealing it in this reprsentation.

And yes, that's a good point about first class too @Enceladus so I will do that. Annoyingly I will have to send 13 of these for the 13 NTOS, albeit I have only received four so far!

cp8759

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Annoyingly I will have to send 13 of these for the 13 NTOS, albeit I have only received four so far!
I'm not sure why you'd need to send 13 seperate letters?!?
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

inst1nct103

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Wouldn't I need to appeal each NTO separately, even if my appeal letter is the same across them?

EDIT: For now I'm just going to send the appeal in the envelope along with the 4 NTO's I've received so far.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2024, 10:40:50 pm by inst1nct103 »

John U.K.

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I'm just going to send the appeal in the envelope along with the 4 NTO's

I'm confused - one doesn't send back the NtOs, you send in your reps against them (the appeal, to the tribunal, is the next step)

Have we seen your final draft?

inst1nct103

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@John U.K.

Yes, you are right sorry. I am sending in my representation against the NTOs. My understanding is if this is rejected, I will get a Notice of Rejection and then I can make an appeal to an independent adjudicator (the tribunal?).

I've tried to keep the final draft as short as possible and state the facts as suggested by @Enceladus



I am appealing the Notice to Owner (NTO) issued to me. This appeal applies to 13 of the 14 Penalty Charge Notices (PCNs - Appendix 1.1) related to this case. For the 14th PCN (ZN12536367), I wish to appeal but was not made aware of how to make a representation against it. As of now, I've received 4 NTOs, with 9 pending. I will provide context before presenting my three-part representation, which I'll explain in detail in separate sections.

Executive Summary

I've held a resident's permit since October 2023. From April 12th to July 12th, 2024, I was abroad for work. My permit expired on April 25th, and I don't recall receiving a renewal notification. Consequently, my car remained parked and stationary in the same place without a valid permit for 61 days.

During this period, 14 PCNs were issued before the council decided to remove my car on May 31st. On June 1st, my sister and a family friend recovered the vehicle on my behalf, paying £265 (£65 PCN fee, £200 removal charge).

I've received 4 NTOs and expect 9 more. The council's potential £1690 demand for late permit renewal is excessive, especially considering my five-year residency and consistent permit history.

My appeal consists of three parts:

  • The council's failure to remove the vehicle earlier.
  • Absence of permit renewal reminders or attempts to contact me.
  • Procedural failures during vehicle impound and release.

The council's failure to remove the vehicle earlier

My car remained stationary throughout the period these PCNs were issued. Tickets were issued almost daily from 07/05/2024 to 30/05/2024 (Appendix 1.1), often just minutes after 24 hours had passed. For instance, PCNs were issued at 08:20 on 22/05, 08:28 on 24/05, and 08:10 on 25/05.

All PCNs except one (dated 29/05) were for contravention code 12(i) at the same location on Cornwall Road. This pattern shows the contraventions were essentially identical, making the number of PCNs excessive and punitive rather than corrective.

___, Head of Highways and Parking, stated in response to my complaint made to Haringey Council (Appendix 2.1): 'Normally after 3 PCNs the vehicle is flagged for removal... I can see from the PCN issued on 30th May that there were 5 PCNs attached to the vehicle and agree that the vehicle should have been removed sooner.’

A single, continuous contravention occurred as the vehicle remained stationary. No law entitles authorities to issue PCNs every 24 hours for the same offence. For continuous contraventions, authorities should use other powers, like vehicle removal. The Council's failure to remove the vehicle promptly should not result in my liability for multiple penalties. This approach is disproportionate and unfair.

The admission by ___, along with the 14 PCNs issued before removal, highlights the council's failure to follow their procedures, resulting in an unjustified number of PCNs for a single, ongoing contravention.

Absence of permit renewal reminders or attempts to contact me

As a five-year resident with a consistent permit history, I've held three consecutive permits with Haringey Council:

May 2022 (1 Year)
May 2023 (6 Months)
October 2023 (6 Months)

My prompt renewals upon receiving past communications demonstrate my reliability.

Haringey Council states: "You'll get an email 5 weeks before your permit ends asking you to renew your permit." However:

  • I did not receive this reminder email and cannot locate it in my records.
  • No follow-up emails, text messages, or letters were sent.
  • No other attempts to contact me were made.

This lack of communication contrasts with other councils' practices, such as Hackney, which sends multiple reminders. Haringey's single email attempt is insufficient to inform residents of expiring permits, especially given my history of prompt renewals upon notification.

Procedural failures during vehicle impound and release

My sister and a family friend recovered the vehicle on my behalf, paying the removal PCN and release fee. The impound staff provided only the PCN receipt (Appendix 3.1) and a vehicle removal receipt (Appendix 3.2), with no information about my rights to appeal or make representations. Additionally, no documentation about how to make representations was provided. I remained unaware of these rights until I sought legal advice.

This was a clear breach of the 'Statutory guidance for local authorities in England on civil enforcement of parking contraventions'.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2024, 11:09:19 am by inst1nct103 »

John U.K.

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I am appealing making representations against the above Notices to Owner (NTO) issued to me. This appeal representation applies will apply to 13 of the 14 Penalty Charge Notices (PCNs - Appendix 1.1) related to this case. For the 14th PCN (ZN12536367), I wish to appeal make a representation but was not made aware of how to make a representation against it. As of now, I've received 4 NTOs, with a further 9 pending. I will provide context before presenting my three-part representation, which I'll explain in detail in separate sections.

Wait for others to comment but do not miss any deadlines.

My initial observations:
Begin by making a list(dates and numbers) of the NtOs against which you wish these reps to be considered.
Change the opening paragraph as I have outlined above.- I am not very happy with the overall result of my changes :(
If you are submitting reps online, you will have to complete a form for each NtO  - attach your reps as a pdf to each one and adjust the opening appropriately.


inst1nct103

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@John U.K, thanks!

I can make the list, the only issue is that only 4 have been sent so far. I haven't received any others. I can list those and say I am also appealing the others that haven't been sent yet.

Appreciate it nonetheless and I'll just make the changes.

I can't see an option to make a representation against the Notice to Owner online. It's why I was going to send it at a letter. I'd prefer online but again I can't see it on Haringey's website.

inst1nct103

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I'm very confused.

Is the the Notice to Owner the same as a Notice of Rejection?

On Haringey's website, it says that I can appeal a decision online or by post.

But then it directs me to the London Tribunals website here.

On there it says I need the details contained on the Notice of Rejection to make an appeal?

Enceladus

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The Notice to Owner is not a Notice of Rejection.

You submit informal representations against an on-site PCN. The person in possession of the PCN can do this.

You submit formal representations against a subsequent Notice to Owner. Or a PCN served by post where there is no informal stage. The NTO or PCN will be addressed to the person or entity held by the DVLA as Registered Keeper on the date of the alleged contravention. The RK submits the representations. If these formal reps or rejected then you can submit an appeal to the independent Adjudicator at the London Tribunals.

And yes the Notice of Rejection should include a code to allow you to appeal online.

You're at the formal representations stage with your PCNs that have progressed to the NTO stage. Which is all of them except PCN 14? Please confirm that you have received NTOs for the first 13 PCNs?

PCN 14 was paid at the pound and you are now out of time to submit informal representations against it. There is no subsequent NTO with a PCN and removal. So that's the only case where an NTO doesn't escalate from an on-site PCN. That said you would still get a Notice of Rejection with the appeal to the Adjudicator option. You should still have a go at submitting representations against PCN 14 and explain why you are late.

You cannot appeal to the Adjudicator until you have an NoR, one for each PCN including PCN 14.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2024, 02:08:14 pm by Enceladus »

H C Andersen

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When you finally engage with the authority - remember, they have NO idea what's happened, their CEOs have churned out PCN after PCN and eventually the car was removed, but don't expect the authority to have kept a watching brief over this because unless you were removed as a 'persistent evader' which we know you weren't, then frankly they're in the dark UNTIL you enlighten them - then on reading your representations IMO you won't get every NTO, they'd be mind dead to do so. (not impossible, but...)

IMO, this is not about them following by rote the process for a single PCN 14 times, it's about you telling them what's happened and them attempting to rationalise the matter.

Enceladus

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........................

I can make the list, the only issue is that only 4 have been sent so far. I haven't received any others. I can list those and say I am also appealing the others that haven't been sent yet.

........................
Please confirm the first 4 Notice to Owners are dated 24th July 2024?
Are these all of the NTOs that you have actually received?

The remaining 9 NTOs are all dated the 26th July except for ZN12411827 which is dated the 29th July. Are you saying that none of these have arrived?

And do you have all 14 of the on-street PCNs? If you don't have them all then please post up a list of the ones that you do have.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2024, 03:00:04 pm by Enceladus »

inst1nct103

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@Enceladus - thanks for clarifying!

I've only received 4 NTOs so far.

For the 14th PCN, I've just sent off (via post) an out of time challenge as @cp8759 suggested.

Yes, all four are dated 24/07/2024. These correspond to PCNS:

  • ZN1212851A - 07/05/2024 09:33
  • ZN12266976 - 15/05/2024 16:25
  • ZN12212900 - 16/05/2024 09:16
  • ZN1235398A - 17/05/2024 08:24

None of the remaining 9 have arrived :S

@H C Andersen that makes sense! It's why I thought it's better to make this appeal reference all 13 NTOs, even if they haven't arrived. As you said I won't be surprised if some go missing.