Author Topic: Haringey box junction pcn  (Read 267 times)

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Haringey box junction pcn
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Hello lovely people

Got a not so lovely pcn in the post for the worse junction I have come across at lordship lane n22 (boreham road).

Please see pcn letter and video/letter showing incident in question.

jus wanted any help to know if I stand any chance appealing this. I cannot even see on the pcn instructions that I can make an informal appeal. Or that if i make one I will still get the chance to pay the discounted rate if they reject it! Any help would massively be appreciated

Thank you

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« Last Edit: May 23, 2025, 05:44:05 pm by acunited »

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Re: Haringey box junction pcn
« Reply #1 on: »
The PCN details have got missed off so we can't check the video. Please reinstate...

Re: Haringey box junction pcn
« Reply #2 on: »
Thanks i’ve re added full pcn details and some extra photos as well thanks

Re: Haringey box junction pcn
« Reply #3 on: »
Hmmm.  This is one of those cases where I think the right turn exemption (as drafted) should apply but where adjudicators seem to interpret it differently.

It states:
The prohibition in sub-paragraph (1) [i.e. stopping when prohibited] does not, in respect of a box junction within sub-paragraph (6)(a) of the definition of that expression [i.e. a box junction situated at the junction of two or more roads], apply to a person who—

(a)causes a vehicle to enter the box junction for the purpose of turning right; and

(b)stops the vehicle within the box junction for so long as the vehicle is prevented from completing the right turn by an oncoming vehicle or other vehicle which is stationary whilst waiting to complete a right turn.

You definitely satisfy limb (a). I believe you also satisfy limb (b) as you stopped for so long as you were prevented from completing the right turn by the car directly in front which was also waiting to complete its right turn.  It had already exited the box junction but it had not yet fully turned onto Lordship Lane.

I believe (some? all?) adjudicators have said that the right turn exemption does not apply if there isn't a clear exit in the road you are turning into when you enter the box junction, but I can't see where that is required in the wording of the exemption.

See what others think.

Re: Haringey box junction pcn
« Reply #4 on: »
This is a postal PCN, therefore 2 steps in this enforcement process:

Formal reps by the addressee of the PCN. The discount is not held, but if reps are made would often be re-offered if unsuccessful;

An appeal may be made to the adjudicator with the full penalty in play.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2025, 01:55:11 pm by H C Andersen »

Re: Haringey box junction pcn
« Reply #5 on: »
See this case re the right turn exemption

2170442131

Mr Anthony Banton has attended on behalf of his wife as the driver of the vehicle at the time of the alleged contravention.

This PCN was issued for the alleged contravention of entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited. The alleged contravention occurred in Talgarth Road at the junction with Butterwick at 6.33pm on 8 May 2017.

Paragraph 7(1) of Part II of Schedule 19 to the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 states that no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles. It is an offence to enter the box without a clear exit and to then stop in the box due to stationary vehicles in front.

Paragraph 7(2) states that this prohibition does not apply to any person causing a vehicle to enter a box junction (other than a box junction at a roundabout) for the purpose of making a right turn out of the box and stopping the vehicle for so long as it is prevented from completing the right turn by oncoming vehicles or other vehicles which are stationary waiting to complete the right turn.

Mr Banton appeals because he says that the car entered the box to make a right turn out of the box and that the vehicle stopped in the box due to other traffic waiting to complete the right turn.

I have reviewed the CCTV footage in this case. The footage shows that Mrs Banton’s car stopped within the box to make a right turn out of the box and was prevented from completing the right turn by a stationary vehicle in front which had also made the right turn.

The Council, in its Notice of Rejection letter to Mrs Banton dated 24 July 2017, stated that a motorist may only stop a vehicle in the box to make a right turn if they are prevented from turning right by oncoming traffic. The Notice states: “You were turning right with no oncoming traffic to block you, only traffic crossing in the direction you were intending to turn”.

The wording of the exemption in Paragraph 7(2) is expressed in the alternative. The exemption applies to allow the vehicle to stop in the box for so long as it is prevented from completing the right turn by oncoming vehicles or other vehicles which are stationary waiting to complete the right turn. In other words, it is not necessary for both conditions to exist for the exemption to apply. It is sufficient that the vehicle is prevented from completing the right turn by other vehicles which are stationary waiting to complete the right turn. That is, in my judgement, the correct reading of the statutory provision. There is no requirement for the exit to be blocked by oncoming traffic. It follows that the alleged contravention did not occur.

Whilst I accept that the vehicle in front of Mrs Banton’s car had technically completed the right turn, it would make a nonsense of Paragraph 7(2) for the right turn exemption not to apply just because the next vehicle making the right turn manages to clear the box rather than having to stop within it.

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