Author Topic: Hammersmith & Fulham, code 52M failure to comply with vehicle prohibition, Peterborough Rd, opposite 90 Clancarty Rd  (Read 1322 times)

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Hello,

I drove through a width restriction — the far left lane in the image below — which, it turns out, is not for cars or motorbikes. I did not see the sign 12ft up a pole and behind a tree!

It’s also worth mentioning that this road layout is relatively new (within the last 1–2 years). I also note that the ''in (place)'' section of the attached PCN appears incoherent/has many spelling mistakes.

Could I please get some advice on whether I should realistically challenge this, and on what grounds? I’m a bit lost as to whether I actually have a winnable case, even though I feel I do.

Thank you in advance. 


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« Last Edit: August 08, 2025, 11:00:14 am by moola123 »

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I make this formal representation:

The video does not support the alleged contravention as it is impossible to read what is contained on the signs, in particular the one on the left. Please cancel.

I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"

The traffic signs are outrageously high. Are there no limits on this, other than the 'adequacy' duty in Regulation 18, LATOR ?

The traffic signs are outrageously high. Are there no limits on this, other than the 'adequacy' duty in Regulation 18, LATOR ?
TSRGD and/or TSM Chapter Three?
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"

The traffic signs are outrageously high. Are there no limits on this, other than the 'adequacy' duty in Regulation 18, LATOR ?
TSRGD and/or TSM Chapter Three?

Good point! TSM Chapter 3 states ''1.9 Mounting of upright signs 1.9.1.  The normal mounting height measured to the lower edge of a sign or backing board (or any supplementary plate) is between 900 mm and 1500 mm above the adjacent carriageway.''

Are you able to go there and measure it though?
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"

Are you able to go there and measure it though?

possibly, yes. However, it's very clear that it's above 1500mm - not sure where the burden of proof resides, with them or with me? Most poignant is the the argument that the signs aren't visible in the videos that alleges an offence

I'll do a draft tomorrow. It will be substantial.
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"


I make this formal representation:

Signage

1.The video does not support the alleged contravention as it is impossible to read what is contained on the signs, in particular the one on the left.

2. This was missed due to its excessive height. Both the TSRGD and TSM Chapter Three are specific with the required height of signs and I therefore put you to strict proof that these are compliant with these sources.

The PCN

I make this collateral challenge against its validity:

The PCN is missing mandatory information as provided at Para. 4 (8 ) (v) of

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted

(v) that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;

Clearly, this refers to Para. 4 (8 ) (iii):

(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;

Therefore, it follows that the statement: "If you fail to pay the Penalty Charge or make representations before the end of a period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this notice an increased charge of £140 may be payable." adds to the lack of clarity by its omission. Even on its own, whether the required information was included or not, it is also arguable that it conflates the two periods by the use of the word "or" which many would view as being conjunctive.

In light of the above, please cancel the PCN.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2025, 12:37:11 pm by Hippocrates »
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Winner Winner x 1 View List

I make this formal representation:

Signage

1.The video does not support the alleged contravention as it is impossible to read what is contained on the signs, in particular the one on the left.

2. This was missed due to its excessive height. Both the TSRGD and TSM Chapter Three are specific with the required height of signs and I therefore put you to strict proof that these are compliant with these sources.

The PCN

I make this collateral challenge against its validity:

The PCN is missing mandatory information as provided at Para. 4 (8 ) (v) of

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted

(v) that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;

Clearly, this refers to Para. 4 (8 ) (iii):

(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;

Therefore, it follows that the statement: "If you fail to pay the Penalty Charge or make representations before the end of a period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this notice an increased charge of £140 may be payable." adds to the lack of clarity by its omission. Even on its own, whether the required information was included or not, it is also arguable that it conflates the two periods by the use of the word "or" which many would view as being conjunctive.

In light of the above, please cancel the PCN.

WOW! I am so grateful. I will submit and come back here to let you know the outcome. Thank you VERY much!

I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Winner Winner x 1 View List

The PCN was cancelled. I wish to recognise and thank Hippocrate - most definitely a ''hero Member'' - for his invaluable knowledge and support.