Author Topic: PCN Surrey County Council 31j yellow box at Dennis Road Roundabout Guildford  (Read 869 times)

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Three possible reasons:
There is no Dennis Road in Guildford.
On entering the box the exit was clear in the next lane.
Camera was triggered for the car behind. 

(According to RAC this yellow box produces the highest PCN income in the country, so I am not optimistic)

Pictures of PCN:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/QoR6FT8yhHLZePJK9

Council evidence:
https://surreyocm.itsvc.co.uk/
RR03687028
OY10FZM

Streetview:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/vaJXdRJuYxdeFGrp8

Thanks for looking

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Quote
On entering the box the exit was clear in the next lane.

If using this in your reps delete 'the exit was clear in the next lane' and replace with 'there was a clear exit ahead of the box'. The counter-argument, of course, is that you didn't choose to take it. How much space did you leave between you and the van ahead?

You could add that any infraction by overhanging the YBJ was de minimis and that you chose to stop when you believed you hac cleared the box.

Include it, but I think you'll struggle with the Dennis Road argument: there may not be a Denis Road but there is a Dennis Roundabout - see
https://osm.org/go/eurWJOEp9--?m=

Arguably, if there were a Dennis Road in Guildford, there could be room for confusion. But the nearest seems to be in East Molesey/Elmbridge.

----
Post up your draft reps here for comment before submitting. AFAIK Surrey will re-offer the discount if reps received by them in the discount period. At least your not in London with its £80/£160 penalties.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2025, 05:43:34 pm by John U.K. »


I got some help drafting reps from my daughter who is a law student and not a specialist in traffic law.

Grounds for challenging PCN:
A) The alleged contravention did not occur
    Driver's judgement and unforeseen circumstances: Upon entering the yellow box junction, it was judged there was sufficient space to clear the box without stopping. The driver believed the wheels were out of the box and deemed it a safe place to stop.
    De Minimis Encroachment: the vehicle's rear wheels were only minimally encroaching into the yellow box junction for a brief period. The driver believed the wheels had cleared the box, but this minor intrusion, particularly given the intention to comply with the rules and the momentary nature of the stop, should be considered de minimis and not a contravention for the purposes of enforcement.  Careful review of the CCTV footage of the incident is requested, specifically noting the extent of the vehicle's presence within the yellow box.
    The other vehicle was the primary cause of the alleged contravention: the regulations specify that you must not enter a box junction if your exit is blocked by stationary traffic. If another vehicle was within the yellow box, hindering the free flow of traffic, the system might have erroneously tagged my vehicle as being the one in contravention, or at least failed to consider full context.
    Entry point: the contravention occurs at the moment you enter the box. There was a clear exit ahead of the box. The driver decided the left hand lane had sufficient space so chose to stay in that lane and believed they had cleared the box.
F) There has been a procedural impropriety by the enforcement authority
Dennis Road does not exist in Guildford.  Searching online for Dennis Road takes you to Molesey

Thanks for looking.

The video doesn't really support your text.
Your car followed a large van into the box without hesitation so you could not possibly have been certain a space would be available at the exit. In fact space was there after the van stopped out of the box, but not sufficient to take all of your car. You can put this down as a de minimis contravention, but an adjudicator may well disagree with you. I reckon you were stationary with the rear of your car in the box for at least 12 seconds, and this is not a de minimis time. Yes, it is a money-grubbing PCN, but still lawfully served. One assumes the car behind you that stopped fully in the box also received a PCN. 

Certainly submit representations, but don't expect them to cancel; for this you'd have to present your arguments to an adjudicator at London Tribunals. If you do this, be sure to point out the true miscreant, the car behind you !

Representations were rejected. 

The letter says the outstanding penalty charge is £35 until 21 days after the notice of rejection date (14/10/2025)

But when I try to pay online the only option is £70!  So I can't pay the proper amount

https://photos.app.goo.gl/QoR6FT8yhHLZePJK9

Go to the payment page and when it asks for 70 take a dated and timed screenshot also try the phone (record it if you can) don.t pay but see how much it asks for