3. Greenwich PCN - 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited
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Re: Greenwich PCN - 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited
« Reply #15 on: »
Quote from: Pastmybest on June 02, 2025, 03:57:45 pm
No write what i told you they might infer they want all the details at this stage but they don't and are required by law to consider everything submitted by the day before the hearing
And you never know, they might actually go and read what the statute says about stopping in YBJs !
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Re: Greenwich PCN - 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited
« Reply #16 on: »
Hi Pastmybest,

I have now submitted the appeal online with the wording you provided above.  This is the case reference number: 2250281616

This was the response from the online appeal form:

What happens next:
The tribunal will review your submitted appeal and let you know if it is accepted within 7 days.

If you do not receive confirmation of the hearing date within 7 days contact us.

If you have further evidence, this can be uploaded by going to Return to my appeal

Any evidence must be uploaded 7 days before your hearing date or posted 14 days before to London Tribunals, PO Box 10598, NOTTINGHAM, NG6 6DR


So now we wait and see what they come back with.

Thanks so much - and I'll post any updates as they come in.

GoldFishBowl

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Re: Greenwich PCN - 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited
« Reply #17 on: »
Let me know as soon as you have a hearing date best by PM
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Re: Greenwich PCN - 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited
« Reply #18 on: »
Hi Pastmybest,

I got a hearing date back:

The hearing of your appeal will take place using the Microsoft Teams video conferencing platform on:
5th September 2025 at 09:00.

I was kind of hoping it wouldn't get this far.  No such luck.  Is there anything I need to prepare for this?

Thanks
GoldFishBowl25
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Re: Greenwich PCN - 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited
« Reply #19 on: »
just post on the forum to keep the tread live I will draft you a skeleton argument all you need do is present it and answer questions that may be asked by the adjudicator

I will draft the skeleton before I visit my son mid august though if you can do not submit it until the council upload their evidence. I will be back well before the hearing to review it
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Re: Greenwich PCN - 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited
« Reply #20 on: »
Thanks so much - really appreciated x
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Re: Greenwich PCN - 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited
« Reply #21 on: »
Hi PastMyBest,

Just checking in again on this one - it's been a long wait, I almost forgot about it!

I've logged into the appeal portal, and they've not uploaded any evidence.

The appeal hearing is set for September 5th 9.00 - via video call.

Can you advise what I need to do now?

Thanks so much

GoldFishBowl25
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Re: Greenwich PCN - 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited
« Reply #22 on: »
Quote from: Pastmybest on June 12, 2025, 10:30:45 am
just post on the forum to keep the tread live I will draft you a skeleton argument all you need do is present it and answer questions that may be asked by the adjudicator

I will draft the skeleton before I visit my son mid august though if you can do not submit it until the council upload their evidence. I will be back well before the hearing to review it

Hi,

Can you help me with the draft argument please?  I haven't seen anything uploaded to portal in terms of evidence yet - I've never attended one of these hearings so I have no idea what to expect.

Thanks very much

GoldFishBowl25
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Re: Greenwich PCN - 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited
« Reply #23 on: »
At the moment, just wait to see if the council upload evidence. They have to do this at least 7 days before the appeal date, to  give you time to respond.

There's a pretty decent chance they won't bother, so you'll win by default without having to do anything.
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Re: Greenwich PCN - 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited
« Reply #24 on: »
Quote from: Grant Urismo on August 19, 2025, 01:46:03 pm
At the moment, just wait to see if the council upload evidence. They have to do this at least 7 days before the appeal date, to  give you time to respond.

There's a pretty decent chance they won't bother, so you'll win by default without having to do anything.

Hi Grant Urismo,

I've just checked the London Tribunals portal again and I can't see any uploaded evidence from the council.  The only thing uploaded as evidence is the "Appellant Notice of Appeal" from June 9th (my appeal).

The hearing is this Friday 5th - and so they've missed the 7 days requirement as you mentioned.  Does this mean the hearing goes ahead and I have to attend the call or will they cancel the call? Or is the original PCN notice and video "the evidence"?

I have no idea what to do or what to expect - please advise.

Many thanks!

GoldFishBowl25
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Re: Greenwich PCN - 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited
« Reply #25 on: »
I know this area - wouldn’t this also be an unauthorised yellow box as the junction to the left is a private entrance to what used to be a brewery, it’s not a public right of way.

GSV here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/H4dNA4PMwoMmxGbd6

Edit - yes it’s the same as this PCN here https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/greenwich-31j-stopping-in-yellow-box-blakwall-lane/

I’m amazed Greenwich have started enforcing what is clearly an unauthorised yellow box. Absolutely ridiculous council.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2025, 10:49:42 am by Andyjh »
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Re: Greenwich PCN - 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited
« Reply #26 on: »
Quote from: GoldFishBowl25 on September 01, 2025, 09:19:38 pm
Quote from: Grant Urismo on August 19, 2025, 01:46:03 pm
At the moment, just wait to see if the council upload evidence. They have to do this at least 7 days before the appeal date, to  give you time to respond.

There's a pretty decent chance they won't bother, so you'll win by default without having to do anything.

Hi Grant Urismo,

I've just checked the London Tribunals portal again and I can't see any uploaded evidence from the council.  The only thing uploaded as evidence is the "Appellant Notice of Appeal" from June 9th (my appeal).
The hearing is this Friday 5th - and so they've missed the 7 days requirement as you mentioned.  Does this mean the hearing goes ahead and I have to attend the call or will they cancel the call? Or is the original PCN notice and video "the evidence"?
I have no idea what to do or what to expect - please advise.
Many thanks!
GoldFishBowl25

As Grant indicated above, Greenwich are in the habit of losing by default for not submitting evidence. If you are still worried, you could
1) ring the tribunal tomorrow for guidance (always used to be helpful).
2) check the tribunal site tomorrow and Thursday for any late uploads. If Greenwich have submitted something, ring the Tribunal and also come back here.

For more re-assurance also have a read of the thread to which Andyjh posted a link above.
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Re: Greenwich PCN - 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited
« Reply #27 on: »
Hi John U.K and Andyjh,

Thanks so much for your response - I read the thread that Andyjh referenced, it's the exact same issue.. well spotted!  That has actually really reassured me :D

I have checked the portal again and the council have not uploaded any new evidence. I will give the a call tomorrow to see what's happening with that.


Should I update my appeal with this statement from Andykh's thread Reply#1, or just leave it as is:

"The box junction does not conform to the requirements of TSRGD schedule 9 part 11 para 6 . I will supply more detail at a later date before any hearing"?

Thanks for your help!

GoldFishBowl25
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Re: Greenwich PCN - 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited
« Reply #28 on: »
Hi all,

I've contacted London Tribunals today and they say that Greenwich council haven't provided any evidence to date, but I still need to attend the hearing and the adjudicator will rule on my evidence.

Question - Do I need to add "The box junction does not conform to the requirements of TSRGD schedule 9 part 11 para 6" to my evidence - as per Andyjh's reply sent « on: September 02, 2025, 10:39:41 am » or just leave it?

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/greenwich-31j-stopping-in-yellow-box-blakwall-lane/

Will they just rule in my favour if I attend - I haven't provided any actual evidence to this portal - just my appear letter (ChatGPT generated sadly).

Thanks for your help!
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Re: Greenwich PCN - 31J - Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited
« Reply #29 on: »
Success!!

The hearing actually didn't go ahead yesterday - I got a call the afternoon before from London Tribunals telling me not to attend because Greenwich haven't provided any evidence.

I received the email just now saying:
The adjudicator directs Royal Borough of Greenwich to cancel the Penalty Charge Notice.

Adjudicator's Reasons
This appeal is listed for video hearing later today. The hearing will not now take place given the council has not provided its evidence, there thus being no case for the appellant to answer. The appeal is allowed.

And that's the end of that.   

Thanks everyone for your support. You're providing such a valuable service and if it wasn't for you, I would have just paid the fine to avoid the stress.   

Turns out the fine was illegitimate in the first instance and shouldn't have been issued... but that didn't stop the council. I never would have stuck it out without your help.

Thank you again you absolute Rockstars!!!

GoldFishBowl25
« Last Edit: September 06, 2025, 10:31:05 am by GoldFishBowl25 »
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