3. Greenwich, Code 52M -Prohibition on certain types of vehicle (motor vehicles), Langton Way/Old Dover
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Greenwich, Code 52M -Prohibition on certain types of vehicle (motor vehicles), Langton Way/Old Dover
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Hello
Received a letter from a debt collection agency today and wanted to know if I have any grounds to dispute or just need to pay up. Story is as follows (Apologies if it's a bit long but I wanted to include all the details):

Case number: GR23157561
Vehicle Reg: WR17 EBM

27/2/25: Turned left from Old Dover Road onto Langton Way during at 8:06am while a low traffic network was in operation.

Council's image:



Location on Google maps is below, although the most recent streetview is from before the LTN was introduced.

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps. · maps.app.goo.gl


I had no idea the LTN was there as there were no warning signs when you approach the roundabout from that direction, and the only signs indicating it were only visible once I'd already started to make the turn (and were partially obscured by a speed limit sign). These are the photos that I submitted in evidence:




April 2025: Received a PCN by post. Unfortunately, I don't know the exact date as I have moved house since and no longer have the letter. I'm sure that I responded within the 28 days, however obviously I can't currently prove that.

18/5/25: Sent my appeal to Greenwich using the photos above, which they acknowledged by email:


July 2025: Hadn't had a response, moved house, in the process of the move lost the original PCN but honestly thought no more about it. Updated my driving licence and vehicle logbook to my new address.

4/2/26: Received an email from Greenwich Council saying they had sent a charge certificate to my old address on 2/12/25 and I hadn't replied. They copied the text of the letter into the email:


The letter was dated 198 days after I sent my appeal and had been posted to the wrong address, 110 days after my vehicle logbook had been updated to my current home.

I realise that I messed up at this point and should have dealt with it there and then. However, when I went to the Greenwich Council website, their parking section had this message on it (it's still there now):
 

Stupidly, I assumed that the ridiculous timeline and sending it to the wrong house meant that my case must be one of the errors they were referring to.


Fast forward to this morning, where I got a letter from a debt collection agency demanding payment by 1st May.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!



« Last Edit: Yesterday at 12:51:18 am by J90 »
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Re: Greenwich, Code 52M -Prohibition on certain types of vehicle (motor vehicles), Langton Way/Old Dover
« Reply #1 on: »
You have told us a lot, but not all that we need. Please read this and update your thread accordingly:-

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

You refer to a "debt collection agency". It is imperative that we know if they are just that, or if they are bailiffs enforcing a warrant. So please post-up their letter as well.  Only when the council register the PCN at the Traffic Enforcement Centre at Northampton, can they instruct bailiffs. When they do this, they have to send you an Order for Recovery. This will be sent to the address that all the other statutory enforcement documents are sent, i.e your old address.

You have told us all about the actual contravention, but you can do absolutely nothing about that unless you can get the enforcement process reverted back to the stage when you submitted representations.

Only redact name and address on all documents you post.

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Re: Greenwich, Code 52M -Prohibition on certain types of vehicle (motor vehicles), Langton Way/Old D
« Reply #2 on: »
Thank you for the reply.

This is the letter I received. It's the only document that has been sent to my current address:





« Last Edit: Yesterday at 07:53:11 am by J90 »
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Re: Greenwich, Code 52M -Prohibition on certain types of vehicle (motor vehicles), Langton Way/Old Dover
« Reply #3 on: »
OK, so its a letter from bailiffs (Newlyns), that is the first stage of bailiff enforcment called "Compliance". This is a statutory letter advising you of the debt and giving you the opportunity to pay it and close the matter. The £75 bailiff fee is a statutory amount. The next stage is the visit stage, when they will add on another £235, again a statutory amount. The debt owed to the council consists of the PCN penalty, plus 50% for the Charge Certificate, and £10 for the TEC registration

So the PCN debt is registered at TEC. The sole process you can now use to try to revert the process back to the stage when you had submitted representations is to submit an Out-of-Time declaration. As this is a London moving traffic PCN, it will have been served under the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003. Therefore you must submit an OOT Statutory Declaration that you submitted reps but received no reply. The forms you need are PE2 and PE3. These require witnessing by a solicitor, or at the local county court, before submission.

Traffic Enforcement Centre forms
Traffic Enforcement Centre forms, including the form to challenge an unpaid penalty charge notice.
gov.uk


Great care is needed in filling in both forms, so I would suggest you contact this website for advice.

www.bailiffadviceonline.co.uk

Sheila, (who runs it), can, for a fee, also prepare your submission. ANy OOT submission is always passed to the enforcement authority who can, and invariably do, object to it, so your info on the submission must be bullet-proof.

In the meantime we recommend paying the bailiffs now to avoid any further costs to you. If your OOT SD is accepted, the matter will be reverted and as you have submitted reps, will be passed to the adjudicators at London Tribunals.
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Re: Greenwich, Code 52M -Prohibition on certain types of vehicle (motor vehicles), Langton Way/Old Dover
« Reply #4 on: »
Thank you for the detailed response. I'll suck it up and pay them the money then.

Based on the details posted, do you think it's worth continuing with the OOT SD?
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Re: Greenwich, Code 52M -Prohibition on certain types of vehicle (motor vehicles), Langton Way/Old Dover
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote from: J90 on Yesterday at 03:36:06 pm
Thank you for the detailed response. I'll suck it up and pay them the money then.

Based on the details posted, do you think it's worth continuing with the OOT SD?
The OOT SD is free apart from the solicitor fee, and free if you get it witnessed at a local county court. We recommend always submitting it unless it really is a hopeless case, like somebody not updating their V5C for months on end after moving house. We've seen V5Cs two years out of date on this forum ! IMHO, the abolition of the tax disc for putting on the windscreen has contributed a lot to cases like this.
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  3. Greenwich, Code 52M -Prohibition on certain types of vehicle (motor vehicles), Langton Way/Old Dover