Author Topic: Good day! Tell me how to stop the fines and open a decision through the court?  (Read 1385 times)

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maks

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Good day! Tell me how to stop the fines and open a decision through the court? I have 4 fines for parking where there is not a single sign. I know many cases when after an appeal everything is resolved. They even took my car, I lost 2 days to find a car and had to pay 265 pounds. I took an appeal form from them, filled it out and sent it by recorder letter.Tracking the letter showed that they received it, but I did not receive any response! In the appeals I wrote that my car was not parked under the signs. I asked to suspend all decisions and give me a form to discuss these fines in court.But I didn't receive any answers!  But they still send letters and ask for money.I have a question: how can I resolve this issue through the court?

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maks

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Incandescent

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Sorry, no good without the documents, so please post them here, and also provide a GSV link to the exact location.

How to start a thread is here: -
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
Please read and update your thread accordingly.




Enceladus

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The PCN & tow must be a London Borough? £200 tow charge + £65 for the PCN?
From your description you submitted a representation (challenge) for this and have had no response. When did you send the representation recorded delivery? The Council should have responded within 56 days.

Please post up the above PCN and any other documents you received at the car pound. Just redact (obscure) your name and address where present and any payment card number from the receipt. Leave everything else visible including the vehicle registration and the PCN number as well as any dates and locations.

By court I believe you mean the Independent Adjudicator at the London Tribunals? You cannot normally submit an appeal to the Adjudicator until you have a Notice of Rejection from the Council.

From your opening post it sounds like the remaining three PCNs have escalated. So please post up a list of the PCNs with the date of issue and the dates of any further documents you might have received. Such as Notices to Owner, Charge Certificates, Orders for Recovery or Notices of Enforcement.

maks

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THERE IS NOT A SINGLE PROHIBITING SIGN IN THIS PARKING LOT!

Incandescent

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THERE IS NOT A SINGLE PROHIBITING SIGN IN THIS PARKING LOT!
No, and there doesn't need to be either, because it is within a Permit Parking Zone. Obviously you missed these signs when you drove along the street and then parked : -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/v9F6nb36Rj3bWt4E8
These zones are the invention of the Devil, but entirely legal. Within them, only permit holders can park within the restricted times, and no signs or lines are needed. However, while most of them are 24x7, here, outside the restricted times, there are still bays for permit holders only, so if you'd parked outside the restricted hours you would have been OK.

You could argue that there is confusion because close by where you parked is a permit holder, or pay-by-phone bay, so the absence of a sign where you parked caused you to assume no parking restrictions applied. This zone has been very badly set-up, and you should submit reps on that basis. Don't be upset if they reject them, because councils reject ALL informal reps, and most formal ones. You will only get a fair hearing at London Tribunals, but must risk the full PCN penalty if you go there.

Worth submitting an informal challenge, as they may ****-up their reply


H C Andersen

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It's a Permit Parking Area.

'permit parking area”
 an area—
(a)
into which each entrance for vehicular traffic has been indicated by the sign provided for at item 5 of the sign table in Part 3 of Schedule 5; and

(b)
where any parking place within that area reserved for the use of the permit holders as indicated on that sign is not shown by markings on the road (whether or not an upright sign is placed next to, or near, such a parking place to indicate that only the permit holders in question may use the place)


https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/1/made

If you look at GSV 2022, you will see that the road has parking places galore with matching markings and signs, including where you were parked. Now there's not a parking place sign in sight(which is optional for the council) or markings(it's mandatory that these are removed)....because these have been replaced by the Permit Parking Area gateway signs, one of which is in your photos.

As matters stand, you don't have a defence against PCN along the lines you've been arguing: the parking place doesn't have markings...because these aren't allowed in a PPA where the parking restriction applies to the permit holders specified in the gateway signs.
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Incandescent

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Just a reminder that this PPA only applies at certain times and only Mon-Sat, yet there is a marked and signed bay opposite where the OP parked, that allows permit holders OR pay-by-phone.

For me this is a confusing situation.

H C Andersen

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OP, as you're fairly local would you pl check out whether there are marked bays on the main carriageway as above.

Neil B

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THERE IS NOT A SINGLE PROHIBITING SIGN IN THIS PARKING LOT!
Please can you comply with what we've asked for.
We don't even know what is alleged by your PCN(s) or the dates, etc.

Neil B

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You are being silly.

We need to see the pcn at the very least
In these car park type scenarios we've seen Newham allege completely the wrong contravention

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

H C Andersen

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@NeilB, some details are in the 'Formal Response' attachment to the OP's post at 12.11 yesterday, although its presence is rather drowned out by the shouting capitals!

It's a code 12, but the date and time aren't in evidence so the OP still needs to post these. The o/s amount is £130, but exactly where the OP is with the PCN which relates to the council's evidence, who knows?

Neil B

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@NeilB, some details are in the 'Formal Response' attachment to the OP's post at 12.11 yesterday, although its presence is rather drowned out by the shouting capitals!

It's a code 12, but the date and time aren't in evidence so the OP still needs to post these. The o/s amount is £130, but exactly where the OP is with the PCN which relates to the council's evidence, who knows?
I had looked but I only saw pics.
'12' makes more sense.

maks

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Opposite the parking lot there is another parking lot where there are lines and a prohibiting sign. So I don’t understand how they can fine me?

maks

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This is the first time I've seen such a sign, it's the same as all the parking ones, but I haven't parked next to it.