Author Topic: Enfield PCN Code 27 - dropped kerb  (Read 904 times)

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Re: Enfield PCN Code 27 - dropped kerb
« Reply #15 on: »
I agree that the dropped kerb isn't obvious when under water and there isn't dimpled paving to alert you.

I would also claim that the PCN was not served to the vehicle, as, having looked at the council's photos on line the plastic wallet is as flat as a pancake, the envelope may simply be empty, placed on the windscreen for effect. I have seen this elsewhere.

In addition the representations form refers to the defunct 2007 Regulations which were replaced by the 2022 General Regulations. That is probably enough to win at the tribunal, but not likely to sway the council.

This case might best be managed by a seasoned expert like me, who has beaten over 2,000 of 2,500 PCN which have been fought. For free representation, email mrmustard@zoho.com
I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.

Re: Enfield PCN Code 27 - dropped kerb
« Reply #16 on: »
take up mrmustards offer  ;)
Quote from: andy_foster
Mick, you are a very, very bad man
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Re: Enfield PCN Code 27 - dropped kerb
« Reply #17 on: »
the envelope may simply be empty, placed on the windscreen for effect. I have seen this elsewhere.

A very serious suggestion and IMO one which should not be made loosely.

However, there appear to be clear issues regarding the timing of the removal, issuing of PCN and the role of the OBCEO. I cannot make out the CEO's number on the PCN and if this is the OBCEO then they have very serious problems well beyond this case.

Re: Enfield PCN Code 27 - dropped kerb
« Reply #18 on: »
Thanks guys for your advice and your offer to represent. I will take up Mr Mustard's offer and update you with the council's responses.

I hope that with the help of Mr Mustard, we will be able to challenge the council's disproportionate and non-compliant actions through the tribunal and avoid other motorists facing similar incidents again. Before issuing such PCNs and removing our vehicles instantly, councils should consider the road conditions, whether the kerb is compliant -the kerb in this case was covered with water and did not have any dimpled paving etc, whether the CEO has permission to both issue a PCN and remove the vehicle at the same time.

What is not acceptable is that Enfield council started the removal process well before issuing the PCN - as Mr Mustard put, the PCN plastic pocket on their photo is as flat as a pancake and there was nothing in it when I collected the car. They had put this plastic empty PCN wallet on the car just for the 'photo' evidence to claim that they issued PCN before removing my car (even if their own photos show that the towing vehicle was right next to my car even if there was no PCN on my car - the photos with the towing vehicle were taken at 09:17hrs, whereas the PCN was issued two minutes later at 09:19hrs.

The car pound staff gave the PCN to me by hand along with the other documents e.g. the receipt of payment and how to challenge form only after paying the amount they demanded. There was no way of me checking the PCN or their evidence on their website to understand what exactly happened (as I did not know the PCN number) before paying for the PCN.


Mr Mustard - thanks for your offer. I will send you a message now.

Re: Enfield PCN Code 27 - dropped kerb
« Reply #19 on: »
and there was nothing in it when I collected the car. They had put this plastic empty PCN wallet on the car just for the 'photo' evidence to claim that they issued PCN before removing my car

You don't know this.

And there is NO reason why the PCN should be in the envelope when you recovered your car, in fact there's every reason why it should NOT be because any sensible checks and balances procedure would require the pound to satisfy themselves that the car was removed lawfully which as a minimum would require a PCN. By all means leave the envelope on the car.

So, before you get too virtuous about this, the issue started with you parking at a dropped footway. At the basic level, this is NOT a matter of law, it's a matter of what an adjudicator believes from the photos and IMO it is NOT as clear-cut as others suggest. C'est la vie.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2024, 06:38:22 pm by H C Andersen »

Re: Enfield PCN Code 27 - dropped kerb
« Reply #20 on: »
This case was won at the tribunal today. To my surprise the OP came so that made 3 of us in the pub afterwards (Hippocrates kept buying me beer after the OP, thanks both, hic). Written decision tomorrow.
I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.

Re: Enfield PCN Code 27 - dropped kerb
« Reply #21 on: »
Hi guys

Today, with the assistance of Mr Mustard, I have won the case! The adjudicator ordered the council to refund £265 (£200 for the towing and £65 for the PCN, which they took on the day they removed the car).

As I was curious, I attended the hearing today and watched the responses of the adjudicator to the presented evidence. The adjudicator's first response was: "not an obvious dropped kerb, is it?"

Mr Mustard then presented my first appeal ground: the PCN was not served. Mr Mustard showed the council's photo with my car and the empty plastic wallet on it. The plastic wallet looked as flat as a 'pancake' as Mr Mustard described it.

Mr Mustard then showed him the PCN that I was handed at the car pound, which did not have any crease at all, indicating that it was not placed in the plastic wallet before they removed my car. The adjudicator asked whether I was served the PCN and I said no as the car was not there when I came back. I didn't know why they had towed away my car until I collected the PCN by hand at the car pound.

They had basically put the empty plastic wallet on the car just for the 'photo' effect without putting the PCN in it at all. This itsef was sufficient for the adjudicator to conclude that the PCN was not served. Within seconds the adjudicator noticed this, he said: "Procedural impropriety. Appeal allowed. The council should refund £265".

After Mr Mustard instructed him, the adjudicator also compared 'the PCN which the tribunal received from the council' and 'the one that I was given by hand at the car pound', which were not same. Mr Mustard helped the adjudicator notice this by comparing the two of them. The adjudicator looked surprised when he noticed this and asked us to give him a copy of my PCN for their own records. The tribunal staff took a copy of it and stamped it to say that they received it.

Within 10 minutes after I attended the hearing, the adjudicator made his decision and allowed the appeal. He did not even think that it was necessary for us to present the other evidence about the council's other wrongdoings, which included:

1) serving an out-of-date notice regarding appeal rights;
2) road conditions (i.e. the dropped kerb was hidden under water in a flooded section of the road);
3) no signs/lines put by the council to alert motorists that there is a hidden dropped kerb there
4) disproportionate action of towing the car rather than only issuing a PCN on a quiet residential road (they towed away my car because it was parked next to a hidden dropped kerb under water)

All in all, it was quite fun to watch the responses of the adjudicator to the evidence presented by Mr Mustard. Many thanks to Mr Mustard for his efforts to prove our points about the council's wrongdoings.

I hope others will do the same and present councils' wrong practices to adjudicators to stop councils abusing their position on motorists.

Good luck to others...

Re: Enfield PCN Code 27 - dropped kerb
« Reply #22 on: »
224058036A

The Appellant has attended and is represented by Mr D Dishman.

The Authority's case is that the Appellant's vehicle was parked adjacent to a footway lowered to meet the level of the carriageway when in Brookside Road on 6 December 2024 at 09:19.

I have allowed this appeal on the grounds of a procedural impropriety. The Regulations require that the Authority provides to the Adjudicator a true copy of the original representations, the Penalty Charge Notice and the Notice of Rejection.

I find that there are material differences between the PCN, which was received at the car pound and the one produced to the Tribunal.

The Appellant's representative has drawn my attention to a number of minor differences on the observe of the PCN, which I find are cumulatively not of the most serious. However, on the reverse of the PCN I find that an entire paragraph has been omitted, which I find appears on one and not the other.

Accordingly, I am not satisfied that the Authority has produced a true copy of the PCN as required by the Regulations. I find this to be a procedural impropriety. Where an Adjudicator finds a procedural impropriety they must allow the appeal.

Additionally, if I had not found as above, I would, and in fact do, find that the PCN was not served to the Appellant's vehicle.

The PCN produced by the Appellant, which was handed to her at the car pound, is devoid of any crease markings, which should have appeared if it had been placed in the plastic envelope.

I note that the tow truck was present at the time the PCN was issued, however, I am not satisfied that the PCN was actually placed in the plastic envelope. This is a prerequisite before e vehicle can be removed.

On enlarging the photograph of the plastic wallet I am unable to see any evidence of the PCN inside the wallet.

The appeal is allowed.
I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.

Re: Enfield PCN Code 27 - dropped kerb
« Reply #23 on: »
Well done.  ;D Mr Teper was in fine form and was with you all the  way I thought.

A pleasure to attend and meet the OP:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/suggested-meeting-for-members-at-furnival-street-next-wednesday-12th-andor-17th/msg57878/#msg57878
« Last Edit: February 13, 2025, 09:44:21 am by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r